More than ever - SCHOOL CHOICE

[stfoskey15]

2. Insulation of the kids from controversy and "the real world" - then when they go to college, they get swamped with atheist and liberal students and teachers and authority figures that convince them that all that religion stuff is wrong and if they want to really be sophisticated college students they need to stop believing in fairy tales.

How is that any different than conservative and Christian teachers and authority figures in private school convincing them that all religion stuff is right and if they want to be sophisticated students they need to start believing in religion?

[Cow Poke]

How is that any different than conservative and Christian teachers and authority figures in private school convincing them that all religion stuff is right

That's obviously not the case, because having your children blow themselves up to kill others is "religion stuff", and we certainly don't think that's right.

and if they want to be sophisticated students they need to start believing in religion?

That's a bit odd, too... I never had any thoughts of making it a goal for my kids to be "sophisticated".

[stfoskey15]

That's obviously not the case, because having your children blow themselves up to kill others is "religion stuff", and we certainly don't think that's right.



That's a bit odd, too... I never had any thoughts of making it a goal for my kids to be "sophisticated".

Okay, good point. My main point, which I should have expressed better, is that the social pressure to be religious is in religious schools, is likely as strong or stronger than the social pressure to be nonreligious in secular schools.

[Cow Poke]

It's POSSIBLE the new Education Secretary will be a powerful School Choice advocate...

Trump picks Betsy DeVos for education secretary post

[rogue06]

It's POSSIBLE the new Education Secretary will be a powerful School Choice advocate...

Trump picks Betsy DeVos for education secretary post

That'll kick the teacher's unions into overdrive.

[Cow Poke]

That'll kick the teacher's unions into overdrive.

And, hopefully, bring the spotlight on the failed educations system they control.

[guacamole]

And, hopefully, bring the spotlight on the failed educations system they control.

To what extent do you believe that unions control school districts?

[Cow Poke]

To what extent do you believe that unions control school districts?

I need to take SpongeBob to Wally World, but here's an article I found pretty quickly on the matter...

A Union by Any Other Name
The NEA and AFT will promote reforms-but only those that serve teachers interests



In my personal experience, when I was arrested for homeschooling in the early 80's, the discovery phase of my trial showed that the teachers' union (TEA and NEA) were actually funding the prosecution - we discovered that an actual memo had been sent to school districts to vigorously prosecute middle to lower income families in richer school districts. Yeah, that's anecdotal, but it sure caused a furor. I was even on CNN!

[rogue06]

And, hopefully, bring the spotlight on the failed educations system they control.

large.jpg

[guacamole]

I worked in two different districts. The first was a special education coop-essentially a non-profit service provider and alternative school organization. My first teaching job was in an on site alternative school in juvenile detention. I used to joke around with the kids that I would serve far more time than they would. I worked there for six years. Other people who worked for the district were social workers, psychologists, therapists, and a host of special education specialists who smaller districts could get to make sure the districts were compliant with special education law.

At this job the union had zero control over policy. The working conditions were set by the home districts in which we worked. So for example, when the teachers of the coop decided to strike over pay and benefits, the teachers and aides who worked in juve were "not allowed" to strike. I functionally had two bosses who could fire me: my principal if he didn't think I was doing a good job, and the facility superintendent (they didn't call him a warden. He was a psychologist who wanted to be called Bernie.), who could fire me if I did something stupid like go home with my jail keys.

In this district, the only function of the union was in salary and hour negotiations. I don't actually recall if I had a choice to be in the union, but I was, for all that it mattered. I presume the union sent some money to the state and national organizations, but I was more concerned with survival than with politics. I was far more concerned about the security guards union

My next job was and has been with a suburban district for twelve years as an English teacher. I belong to the union here, though not all the teachers do. Here, the union has no hand in setting policy. It works the same as the coop (primary function being salary and work conditions negotiations) with the added protection of due process in diciplinary action and firing for tenured teachers. The district can and does fire tenured teachers. Non tenurednteachers can be fired for no reason within the first four years of work. As long as I've worked there, with one exception, the union, board, and administration have presented a unified face. We almost went on strike once, though the board and the union both blinked at the final negotiation.

I have relatives who work for Chicago and who have been on strike several times. But if it's down to a fight between Rahm Emmanuel and the CTU, I don't know who you all would cheer for! Lol. The CTU is relatively powerful, but as yet they've been unable to stop the school reform juggernaut. Note, however, that Chicago has two multi-school charter operators whose teachers have unionized and gone on strike.

Fwiw,
Guaca.

[Cow Poke]

I worked in two different districts. The first was a special education coop-essentially a non-profit service provider and alternative school organization. My first teaching job was in an on site alternative school in juvenile detention. I used to joke around with the kids that I would serve far more time than they would. I worked there for six years. Other people who worked for the district were social workers, psychologists, therapists, and a host of special education specialists who smaller districts could get to make sure the districts were compliant with special education law.

At this job the union had zero control over policy. The working conditions were set by the home districts in which we worked. So for example, when the teachers of the coop decided to strike over pay and benefits, the teachers and aides who worked in juve were "not allowed" to strike. I functionally had two bosses who could fire me: my principal if he didn't think I was doing a good job, and the facility superintendent (they didn't call him a warden. He was a psychologist who wanted to be called Bernie.), who could fire me if I did something stupid like go home with my jail keys.

In this district, the only function of the union was in salary and hour negotiations. I don't actually recall if I had a choice to be in the union, but I was, for all that it mattered. I presume the union sent some money to the state and national organizations, but I was more concerned with survival than with politics. I was far more concerned about the security guards union

My next job was and has been with a suburban district for twelve years as an English teacher. I belong to the union here, though not all the teachers do. Here, the union has no hand in setting policy. It works the same as the coop (primary function being salary and work conditions negotiations) with the added protection of due process in diciplinary action and firing for tenured teachers. The district can and does fire tenured teachers. Non tenurednteachers can be fired for no reason within the first four years of work. As long as I've worked there, with one exception, the union, board, and administration have presented a unified face. We almost went on strike once, though the board and the union both blinked at the final negotiation.

I have relatives who work for Chicago and who have been on strike several times. But if it's down to a fight between Rahm Emmanuel and the CTU, I don't know who you all would cheer for! Lol. The CTU is relatively powerful, but as yet they've been unable to stop the school reform juggernaut. Note, however, that Chicago has two multi-school charter operators whose teachers have unionized and gone on strike.

Fwiw,
Guaca.

Many (most, all?) of the school districts in Texas are "independent school districts". One of the biggest complaints about the teachers' unions is that it's almost impossible to fire bad teachers. I think because we have a strong school board made up of local individuals, the clash between "union representation" of the teacher and the school board is often won by the school board in favor of the kids.

For example, a teacher being accused of inappropriate behavior - in some school districts, the union defends them to the hilt, and it's almost impossible to get them fired. Here, in our area, the local school board is strong enough to stand up to the union, and such teacher would "be allowed to resign".

What's amazing to me is that the "teachers' unions" are incredibly political, and, in many cases, pretty much bully their union members into voting Democrat. At the same time, Democrats like Hillary run on campaigns using slogans like "for the children", but the union's interest are almost always on the side of the union employee (teacher) and not the students.

By the way, I did my time as a "school jailer" also! I had the "in school suspension" of some junior high kids who were really tough (in their own minds) cookies.

When I was new, I had one kid - I think he was 17 years old (yes, junior high) who was being incredibly disruptive, and I decided he needed to be written up and sent to the principal's office. This kid just jeered at me and pointed to a large banner at the top of the wall that explained the multi-step disciplinary procedure that had to take place before he could be sent to the principal's office.

It was one of the dumbest things I ever saw - the kids knew EXACTLY what they could get away with before the next step of discipline, and they played it up big time. It was nearly impossible to administer any kind of effective discipline. In fact, they banded together and accused me of calling that one troublemaker a name, which I did not do. I actually had to go to the principal's office after class, and sit in on an "evaluation". Fortunately, there was a video monitor of that class, and it was clear that I did not call him the repulsive name they all claimed I used.

But it really made me mad - I can't discipline them, but I got yanked into an "evaluation" meeting because they complained.

[Cow Poke]

What's amazing to me is that the "teachers' unions" are incredibly political, and, in many cases, pretty much bully their union members into voting Democrat. At the same time, Democrats like Hillary run on campaigns using slogans like "for the children", but the union's interest are almost always on the side of the union employee (teacher) and not the students.

The article I cited speaks to this here...



So, back to Trump appointing an Education Secretary amenable to school choice, there's a possibility that some progress can be made. I'm not holding my breath, though, because the teachers' unions are pretty powerful and organized.

[Cow Poke]

To what extent do you believe that unions control school districts?

I thought this was pretty interesting from UnionFacts.Org (bolding mine)

Between 1990 and 2010, 93 percent of donations made by National Education Association political action committees and individual officers went to Democratsonly 41 percent of public school teachers are Democrats

[seer]

Why don't liberals support school choice? After all the word choice is in there. I mean it is widely popular in the inner cities, why shouldn't the poor have the opportunity to get their kids into Charter or private schools?

[seer]

So, back to Trump appointing an Education Secretary amenable to school choice, there's a possibility that some progress can be made. I'm not holding my breath, though, because the teachers' unions are pretty powerful and organized.

Except we have both houses of congress now and will have the Court soon. There is a real chance that I don't think I have seen in my lifetime. I hope so for the sake of poor families.