Trump commits treason

[seanD]

Obama got much done despite the evil republican obstructionism, thats one of the reason they hate him so much. Remember Mitch O'connell, our job is to make him a one term president. How'd that work out for ya? Ouch!

Problem with that argument is that Reps and Dems have always been at each others throats, attempting to sabotage each others political strategies. This is nothing new, and certainly nothing exceptional under Obama's administration. What is new, however, is the fact that Obama will be the first president in the history of America to never have a year of 3% GDP growth. The first. Not only this, but this is in spite of the fact the Federal Reserve made unprecedented moves to try and spark the economy. Keeping interest rates at 0% for 8 years and pumping literally trillions of dollars into the financial system (which is based on Keynesian economic policies BTW), another first in US economic history, had nothing to do with what Congress did or didn't do. Now I personally believe there are economic factors beyond Obama's control, but it would be very easy in this context to utterly destroy the argument you're making here.

[Cow Poke]

Problem with that argument is that Reps and Dems have always been at each others throats, attempting to sabotage each others political strategies. This is nothing new, and certainly nothing exceptional under Obama's administration. What is new, however, is the fact that Obama will be the first president in the history of America to never have one quarter of 3% GDP growth. The first. Not only this, but this is in spite of the fact the Federal Reserve made unprecedented moves to try and spark the economy. Keeping interest rates at 0% for 8 years and pumping literally trillions of dollars into the financial system (which is based on Keynesian economic policies BTW), another first in US economic history, had nothing to do with what Congress did or didn't do. Now I personally believe there are economic factors beyond Obama's control, but it would be very easy in this context to utterly destroy the argument you're making here.

But, but, but... all those shovel-ready jobs!!!! And... that stimulus package!!!!!

[JimL]

As is Hillary, who was, of course, named after the great explorer... wait, she lied about that. She was born well after he became famous!

No, youre either lying about it or are just plain ignorant about the facts. What she said was that her mother always told her that she was named after him as inspiration. How was she to know any different?

They're liars - BOTH of them.

You're a liar as well, so aren't we all. Trump is pathological.

Hillary falls into the category, however, of somebody who would rather climb a tree and tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth, when the truth would work just as well.

Examples?

[Cow Poke]

No, youre either lying about it or are just plain ignorant about the facts. What she said was that her mother always told her that she was named after him as inspiration. How was she to know any different?

Jimmy, calm yourself, and tone down the false accusations of lying - that's a moddable offense. I actually saw the "fact check" on this - and it's rated has "half false" - so, I guess we could say that Hillary came to her lying honestly, cause it was taught to her by her mother.

You're a liar as well, so aren't we all. Trump is pathological.

You're going off the rails, Jimmy. Calm yourself.

You messed up the quotes at the end of your post, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should take a walk and calm down a bit.

[JimL]

Problem with that argument is that Reps and Dems have always been at each others throats, attempting to sabotage each others political strategies.

Wrong. Not to the detriment of the country they haven't been willing to sabotage until this bunch of republicans took over.

[Starlight]

Wrong. Not to the detriment of the country they haven't been willing to sabotage until this bunch of republicans took over.

According to one commentator I was listening to, the extremist gridlock that's been the primary Republican strategy dates to Newt Gingrich becoming speaker in 1995 under Clinton. He pursued extremist stalling and divisive blockading tactics that caused federal government shutdowns in 95 and 96. The Republican party of today is the natural heir to that legacy with it's record-breaking number of filibusters, government shutdown, debt ceiling crises, and record-breaking refusal to do their constitutional duty of considering the president's supreme court nominee. So their refusal to govern is 20 years old, not new under Obama.

[rogue06]

Common sense. Worst recession in 70 years by far explains slowest recovery, particulary when you have a republican congress who for political reasons put themselves and their political party before the good of the country.

The recession during the late 70s was much worse. Double digit inflation and unemployment with interest rates at 20%. And let's not forget the lines at gas stations which stretched several blocks and only being allowed to purchase gas on certain days.

[Cow Poke]

According to one commentator I was listening to,

WOW - that's powerfully conclusive!

the extremist gridlock that's been the primary Republican strategy dates to Newt Gingrich becoming speaker in 1995 under Clinton. He pursued extremist stalling and divisive blockading tactics that caused federal government shutdowns in 95 and 96. The Republican party of today is the natural heir to that legacy with it's record-breaking number of filibusters, government shutdown, debt ceiling crises, and record-breaking refusal to do their constitutional duty of considering the president's supreme court nominee. So their refusal to govern is 20 years old, not new under Obama.

Two words: Dirty Harry

[Cow Poke]

The recession during the late 70s was much worse. Double digit inflation and unemployment with interest rates at 20%. And let's not forget the lines at gas stations which stretched several blocks and only being allowed to purchase gas on certain days.

I think he got that from Rachel Maddow, so who are you to question it?

[rogue06]

Obama got much done despite the evil republican obstructionism, thats one of the reason they hate him so much. Remember Mitch O'connell, our job is to make him a one term president. How'd that work out for ya? Ouch!

Throughout much of his first term he had such overwhelming majorities in both Houses of Congress that the Republicans could do little else than sit and watch. They didn't even have enough members to attempt a filibuster they were so weak. And Obama made sure to rub that in their faces.

Obama made it crystal clear that he did not need to or want to talk to them and didn't. When pressed on this refusal to even talk with Republican leaders after taking office Obama shrugged it off saying it would be a waste of his time because they were too extreme yet at the exact same time he was offering to open up talks with America's avowed enemies (obviously because he believed that people dedicated to destroying the U.S. were more reasonable than the Republicans).

About the only time he did deign to actually talk to the Republicans it was to sneeringly mock Eric Cantor when Cantor contacted him offering to negotiate on the stimulus package:

"Look at the polls. The polls are pretty good for me right now. Elections have consequences. And Eric, I won."

Then Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel in his usual cordial manner put it another way: "We have the votes. F-word them."

Obama and the Democrats in the House and Senate refused to even look at a single Republican proposal during the first two years. And after the Republican landslide in 2010 Obama actually had to ask his aides if they knew how to contact the incoming Republican leadership because he never talked to them before. Bob Woodward (by no means someone sympathetic to conservatives) detailed a lot of this in his book The Price of Politics

During the "debt crisis" a few years ago John Boehner was very public about constantly being called to the White House not to negotiate but to be lectured to. Even the Democrats were complaining of Obama's ham-fisted attempts to boss everyone around with one of their senior staffers saying that he "simply didn't understand how Congress works and didn't know how to negotiate."

Woodward reports that both Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid got so fed up with Obama's handling of the situation that they cut their own deal with Boehner saying that Obama had been "voted off the island in his own house."

When hyper partisans like Pelosi and Reid get disillusioned with you and start working with the Republicans behind your back that speaks volumes.

But Obama did negotiate one thing only to screw it up. Woodward details how after originally agreeing to focus on spending cuts Obama had actually got Boehner to agree to a major concession -- to an increase of $800 billion in tax increases. But then after coming to an accord, Obama turned around and demanded an additional $400 billion -- something he had to be aware that Boehner couldn't pull off -- and pretty much took spending cuts off the table.

IMHO, Obama decided to deliberately sabotage it because having a political issue in the upcoming 2012 election was more valuable than fixing the crisis. That is pretty much a major theme in Woodward's "The Price of Politics" -- how Obama didn't really want a deal because of the election.

To be fair Woodward also put a lot of the blame on Boehner as well but clearly revealed rather than being the Republicans as the White House claimed and the media dutifully parroted it was the Obama Administration's idea to postpone national debt ceilings until after the election.

[JimL]

According to one commentator I was listening to, the extremist gridlock that's been the primary Republican strategy dates to Newt Gingrich becoming speaker in 1995 under Clinton. He pursued extremist stalling and divisive blockading tactics that caused federal government shutdowns in 95 and 96. The Republican party of today is the natural heir to that legacy with it's record-breaking number of filibusters, government shutdown, debt ceiling crises, and record-breaking refusal to do their constitutional duty of considering the president's supreme court nominee. So their refusal to govern is 20 years old, not new under Obama.

True, but I think the 95-96 Congress they mistakenly obstructed, doing great harm on principle, whereas with this present group of republicans its purely political and they couldn't care less about the damage they've caused. Actually doing damage to the economy is their purpose.

[Starlight]

Throughout much of his first term he had such overwhelming majorities in both Houses of Congress that the Republicans could do little else than sit and watch. They didn't even have enough members to attempt a filibuster they were so weak. And Obama made sure to rub that in their faces.

Dude, the Dems had a filibuster-proof supermajority for 4 months not "much of Obama's first term". If you can't even get the basic facts right, what hope is there for the rest of your fiction based rambling analysis?

[Tassman]

True, but I think the 95-96 Congress they mistakenly obstructed, doing great harm on principle, whereas with this present group of republicans its purely political and they couldn't care less about the damage they've caused. Actually doing damage to the economy is their purpose.

I agree and the Republicans are paying the price now. The electorate is so utterly disenchanted with the way Congress functions (or rather doesn't function) that it's supporting Trump...to the horror of most Republican members of Congress. And it serves them right.

[Jaecp]

Not that it matters to the supporters of Trump, but Trump is a pathological liar. In a recent interview he asserted that he doesn't even know Putin, he's never met him or spoken to him. Only problem is he said just the opposite in a previous interview. He said in that interview that he had met with and talked directly to Mr. Putin who seemed to him to be a very nice man. Trumps campaign manager, Paul Manafort, is the same guy that managed the campaign of Putins puppet in Ukraine, who btw lost his election bid in Ukraine and had to flee to Russia for asylum. Now why would a good american like Manafort be working to elect a russian sympathizer to president of the Ukraine against the wishes of the U.S, Europe, and the Ukrainian people themselves? I don't know, but it doesn't look good to me and neither does the fact that Trump is obviously lying about his relationship with Putin.

I know why!

It's actually pretty popular for highly experienced and connected campaign managers to work in foreign elections because it pays so so so much better than anything pays over here. Manafort made, easily, a couple hundred grand for a relatively short campaign and it doesn't impact his ability to get a job here because no one cares if you lose a foreign election, they only care what your record is like over here.

[Jaecp]

Dude, the Dems had a filibuster-proof supermajority for 4 months not "much of Obama's first term". If you can't even get the basic facts right, what hope is there for the rest of your fiction based rambling analysis?

Not to mention, why in the hell isn't the ACA the single payer system we originally wanted if Obama had such latitude...