The Bernie Gimme Gimme Gimme Crowd

[Mountain Man]

I played StarCraft many years ago, but I simply couldn't compete in the online arena, so it lost its charm. Then I learned about "actions per minute":

and finally realized why I always got my backside handed to me in multiplayer. There's no way I could ever keep up with guys like that.

[JonathanL]

I played StarCraft many years ago

My favourite RTS game is still AoE.

"Wololo"

[Mountain Man]

I was a big fan of Age of Empires II back in the day. That was when the series peaked in my opinion. AoE III was a good game but just didn't have the same magic.

These days I'm really into the grand strategy games from Paradox Interactive.

[lilpixieofterror]

I can't tell if you are not smart enough to interpret my post or if you are just dishonestly changing my meaning to make it look like I was labeling the farmers instead of the American Profiteering system they found themselves in.

believe me or don't believe me , nothing I can do about that.

I haven't changed anything JR. You're trying to blame them for something they have been doing for years and totally ignoring that there simply was no reason for any of them to have done or have known any different. You also have failed to produce any evidence to support your accusations that communist would have done any better. In fact, in every country that communism has ever been tried in, lack of food seems to be among their problems while capitalist countries don't have those issues. It's almost as if communism is a total and complete failure and we should stop trying to use a failed system over and over again somehow expecting different results.

Source: The Guardian

New hope for Argentina in the recovered factory movement only this time as their own bosses.If you ask anyone here if they would return to work with a boss, no-one would", he says.

source

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THAT is worker control.

In the USSR for example, all the workers did was trade their tyrant Capitalist bosses , for tyrant Party Member bosses. The "Proletariat" never did take over, (IOW, Marxism didn't happen)

Here is how it could happen and still be Capitalism in USA , don't have to watch the whole video, the workers coop starts around 1 hour 20 minutes into the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WUKahMm1s

(Richard D. Wolff, Professor of Economics Emeritus, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, gives two examples , one voluntary owners want to sell their factory, the second, the owners want to shut down if the workers won't accept concessions.)

That's right despite the fact that socialism has failed in over a dozen countries the problem isn't the fact that it is a failed system and only seems to produce lack of resources from places that once had huge resources, it's the fact it just hasn't been tired hard enough.

[Cow Poke]

My favourite RTS game is still AoE.

"Wololo"

Nobody plays Pong?

[lilpixieofterror]

And you knows this to be true how?

Because you and your fellow idiots would be screaming it from the rooftops. Yet, they haven't. In fact, the Republicans have no reason to cheat idiot because conservatives outnumber liberals and are only 2% lower than moderates (this is based on the poll data, try reading it instead of just listening to your Democrat overlords). The fact is that you have failed to produce even one example of any stolen election.

Not some random guy lilpix, a leader in the Pennsylvania Republican party, the party that crafted the law. I think he understands better than you do the intent of the law.

Yes, despite the fact that conservatives outnumber liberals, conservatives need to cheat to win. Likewise, does it make any sense for anybody to admit that the 'goal of the law' is to do what Democrats claim it should do? Of course, we already know that you don't think and you'll just mindlessly listen to whatever your overloads tell you because it whispers things you want to hear, but the facts speak for themselves. I know you really believe your own propaganda, but your propaganda is untrue. Republicans need to actually start being conservative and actually play to their base, not cheat. Something your propaganda filled mind fails to understand.

In other words you have no references, you made it up. You have no credibility lilpix, just a lot of hot air as usual.

Everybody else has to provide references, but Jimmy! Nope, Jimmy is allowed to just repeat that 'some republican said this, so it's true!" but nobody else can do what Jimmy does. Don't do what Jimmy does, do what he says! Sorry Jimmy, you could confirm all of these things just by doing a few minutes of searching, but you won't because your messiah must be perfect in every way because your previous messiah failed. Since Obama clearly failed to be your messiah, are you looking for a new messiah to solve all of you problems for you?

No lilpix, thats just your usual thoughtless gibberish. No President is going to fix everything, he needs the support of the people and the cooperation of Congress. A President isn't a tyrant and executive action is limited.

So that means your previous messiah (Obama) is wrong? It's not 'gibberish' at all Jimmy, it's how your Democrats buddies have acted for the past 8 years. Remember how Obama had to take unjustified executive action because congress wasn't moving fast enough? So was your messiah wrong when he tried to do this? I do wish you guys would make up your minds, is unilateral executive action ok or not?

That just goes to show your biased mind lilpix. Nothing? Nothing that you like perhaps, or nothing that you'd be willing to give him credit for maybe, but considering the purposeful obstructionism from the "do-nothing" republican Congress, he's done quite well.

Everybody is biased, but Jimmy. That's right, Jimmy on the one had says that a president needs to work with congress, but on the other hand, when congress doesn't do what Jimmy wants, his messiah can just ignore established laws and procedures because Republicans are evil and can thus be ignored when they object to what those wonderful and awesome Democrats do. Working with the other said? Who needs that? Republicans need to lay down and let the Democrats do whatever they want.

Savior? Messiah? Your a nutcase Lilpix.

It's called making fun of you and making fun of how you guys acted 8 years ago when Obama was elected. Remember how Obama was made into this whole 'hope and change' thing where everything was going to change, all the corruption was going to go, and everything was going to be different ? I know you're desperate to shove this stuff down the memory hole (because it didn't work that way, at all), but you're acting just like you were 8 years ago and seem to ignore it because you're actually the brainwashed one around here. Obama was suppose to save us from all of this 8 years ago, so I guess you need a new savior to save you from what you were suppose to be saved from 8 years ago? Will we be saved from your political sins with Sanders or not?

[lilpixieofterror]

He seems to think that countries fight wars like you would play a game of StarCraft. He really is clueless.

You could have just used your last sentence. That would tell us what we already know.

[JonathanL]

I was a big fan of Age of Empires II back in the day. That was when the series peaked in my opinion. AoE III was a good game but just didn't have the same magic.

These days I'm really into the grand strategy games from Paradox Interactive.

Yeah, Age of Empires II was definitely the best game of the series. I particularly liked the Genghis Khan campaign.

[jordanriver]

I haven't changed anything JR. You're trying to blame them for something they have been doing for years and totally ignoring that there simply was no reason for any of them to have done or have known any different.

no it was not the way they had been doing it for years, they were plowing and planting wheat as never before.

Source: Trinity University ' The 1930's Dust Bowl'

Early Thirties Economy
In 1930 and 1931, the decade opened with unparalleled prosperity and growth. NATION'S BUSINESS magazine labeled the panhandles of Oklahoma and Texas as the most prosperous region. The Panhandle was a marked contrast to the long soup lines of the Eastern United States.

Farming in the Panhandle
Wheat was a real good thing. The world needed it and was paying a good price for it. Wheat farmers with tractors, one way plows and combines purchased by most farmers after the phenomenal crop of 1926, began plowing and planting wheat as never before. The lands were planted to wheat year after year without a thought as to the damage that was being done. Grasslands that should have never been plowed were plowed up. Millions of acres of farm land in the great plains were broken.
source

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Setters were lured by promises of wealth:

Source: HISTORY.COM '10 Things You May Not Know About the Dust Bowl'

2. The Dust Bowl was both a manmade and natural disaster.
Beginning with World War I, American wheat harvests flowed like gold as demand boomed. Lured by record wheat prices and promisessource

© Copyright Original Source

some of the settlers were not even settlers, but temporary "suitcase farmers" who had no attachment to the land, just land to exploit:

Source: LA TIMES REVIES of Ken Burns' 'The Dust Bowl'

often for absentee "suitcase farmers" with no emotional attachment to the landsource

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Source: DENVER POST ' The Dust Bowl: Dark, dirty times'

Compounding the problem were the so-called suitcase farmers, from Denver and elsewhere, absentee landowners who plowed massive swathes of prairie sod. In these ways, millions and millions of acres of soil were rendered naked.
source

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And the PBS AMERICAN EXPERIENCE 'Surviving The Dust Bowl' presentation,
at about 5:50 into the video, it shows how settlers were lured by "boosters and promoters lured in farmers with the promise of heaven on earth."
and

Source: PBS AMERICAN EXPERIENCE 'Surviving The Dust Bowl'

The race was on to turn every inch of the Southern Plains into profit.source transcript of video

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Farming became INDUSTRIAL CAPITALISM

Source: Dust Bowl: The Southern Plains in the 1930s Donald Worster

p96-97
Explaining the plow that broke the plains requires one to explain the powerful expansionary and autonomous thrust of American society. The historian traces the origins of this extraordinarily determined push into the grassland to Jefferson's outward-moving democracy and to the shaping of American agriculture by an evolving capitalism. There was no sharp break between the two; both were expressions of the same self-minded, individualistic dynamism that ignored complex ecological realities. But the capitalist ethos was by far the more important, for it replaced man's attachment to the earth, which Jefferson still cherished, with an all-out dedication to cash, it replaced a rural economy aimed at sufficiency with one driving toward unlimited wealth. By the twentieth century American agriculture was moving rapidly into its industrialist phase, bringing Henry Fordism to the plains. Industrial capitalism, explained Thorstein Veblen, resulted from combining "the machine process and investment for a profit."

source

© Copyright Original Source

same book notes that not all "suitcase farmers" were irresponsible, but "concerned about their investment's long range security"

Source: Dust Bowl: The Southern Plains in the 1930s Donald Worster

p93-94
The mobility of the new machines allowed not only large-scale enterprises, but also widely dispersed holdings. It was now possible to drive one's equipment to another county or even to another state, plant wheat, return home in a few weeks, and wait until the next spring before visiting the land again--it was possible, in other words, to become a "suitcase farmer." This was particularly attractive for wheat speculators, many of whom were city bankers, druggists, or teachers; they put in their seed, went back to their regular work, and waited to see what would happen to Chicago grain futures. In a year of high prices they might make a killing, paying for an entire farm with one crop, then selling the land at a tidy sum to another fast-buck chaser. Not all suitcase farmers were looking for such quick returns; many of them were responsible men and women, concerned about their investment's long range security, and technically proficient. But the machine made possible, and common, an exploitative relationship with the earth: a bond that was strictly commercial. so that the land became nothing more than a form of capital that must be made to pay as much as possible.
All across the flat open spaces the tractors steadily plowed away, especially in the second half of the 1920s and on up until the very eve of the dust storms. Occasionally they even worked at night, their headlights moving like fireflies in the grass. Near Perryton, Texas, H.B. Urban, an altogether typical wheat farmer of the day, arrived in 1929 and cranked up his two Internationals; each day he and his hired man broke out 20 acres, until virtually his whole section of stripped of its grama and buffalo grass. In thirteen southwestern Kansas counties, where there had een 2 million crop acres in 1925, there were 3 million in 1930. During the same period farmers tore up the native vegetation on 5,260,000 acres in the southern plains--an area nearly seven times as large as the state of Rhode Island. Most of the freshly plowed ground when into wheat, so that over teh twenties decade the production of that cereal jumped 300 per cent, creating a severe glut by 1931. That was how men prepared for the days to come. When the black blizzards began to roll across the plains in 1935, one-third of the Dust Bowl region--33 million acres--lay naked, ungrassed, and vulnerable to the winds. The new-style sodbusters now had their turn at facing disaster

google books source

© Copyright Original Source

summary, UNCHECKED CAPITALISM caused the Dust Bowl

[lilpixieofterror]

no it was not the way they had been doing it for years, they were plowing and planting wheat as never before.

And I know that the Soviets were well known for their projects too JR. Pretending as though they were not, is dishonesty at it's best. Again, do you have any evidence to conclude that a communist system wouldn't of tried to utilize the land in the same way? Do you have any evidence to conclude that communist would have avoided the dust bowl? Do you have any evidence that communist would have handled it better? Yes or no or do you prefer to flat out ignore that communist are well known for their destructive practices too?

[jordanriver]

And I know that the Soviets were well known for their projects too JR. Pretending as though they were not, is dishonesty at it's best. Again, do you have any evidence to conclude that a communist system wouldn't of tried to utilize the land in the same way? Do you have any evidence to conclude that communist would have avoided the dust bowl? Do you have any evidence that communist would have handled it better? Yes or no or do you prefer to flat out ignore that communist are well known for their destructive practices too?

what communism?
I don't know of any worker controlled countries.

[lilpixieofterror]

what communism?
I don't know of any worker controlled countries.

And now we have the no true Scotsman fallacy too. I take it you don't have any evidence to back up your claims. Would they have done better? Yes or no?

[jordanriver]

And now we have the no true Scotsman fallacy too. I take it you don't have any evidence to back up your claims. Would they have done better? Yes or no?

no this is not an example of no true Scotsman fallacy.
Marxism is a classless society of the proletariat (workers) control.

Can you name a country so far that had a classless society of workers.

[lilpixieofterror]

no this is not an example of no true Scotsman fallacy.
Marxism is a classless society of the proletariat (workers) control.

Can you name a country so far that had a classless society of workers.

AKA you're trying to change up the subject because you don't want to answer. The reality seems to be that we both know the answer is (likely) no they wouldn't or (at best) you can't know the answer. Therefore, there's no reason to believe that communist would be any better at preventing an ecological disaster than capitalist are. Besides, the communism you're talking about is pie in the sky nonsense that will never exist, on any large scale. A 'classless society' can't exist JR because it goes against basic human nature. Some humans are better leaders, some are better engineers, some are better teachers, farmers, labors, writers, etc get rid of the classes and you'll find classes reestablishing themselves again. Sorry JR, but not only can you not provide any evidence to support your claims, but your whole communist belief system will never happen and will remain pie in the sky nonsense that will fail over and over again, every time it is tried because it rest upon a faulty assumption. That all humans are equal in every way. A belief that goes against every observed fact we know.

[jordanriver]

AKA you're trying to change up the subject because you don't want to answer. .

are you projecting.


are you using tactic of deflecting blame for what you did?



YOU are the one who "change up the subject"

I initiated Dust Bowl topic in MY POST 16 only claim I made was that free market anarchy overplowing caused the Dust Bowl, and that was in reply that free market allows farmers and companies to innovate.

Nothing about how communism would have prevented it.

Then you remarked about me in YOUR POST 42 that the people were just following centuries old farming techniques failing to account for the wind..., nothing yet about claiming that I claimed communism would have prevented Dust Bowl.


so, I replied in MY POST 75 that the wind is kind of hard to miss in Kansas. I still never claimed that communism would have prevented Dust Bowl. (like i been sayin, how could I, no communist/Marxist states yet in the world)

then in my next post MY POST 83 I had to defend against something else I never said, that the farmers were sinning, and I again made my claim that Dust Bowl caused by Capitalism (profiteering), but still no claim that communism would have/could have prevented Dust Bowl.

then you returned with 2 posts, YOUR POST 87 and YOUR POST 88 where you imagined I ever watched Captain Planet (had to google that) and you still trying to make it look like I blamed the farmers although I already noted that my position was farmers were basically pawns and that it was the fault of the capitalist system we live it, BUT the point is here, that still there is no mention of me ever claiming communism would have/could have prevented Dust Bowl.

so i replied to that with MY POST 93 and still made no claim about communism preventing Dust Bowl, ...but I did get to say you "go off half cocked" and that was kind of fun.

BUT THEN it was in YOUR POST 95 where you demanded I provide proof to support my "claim" that "that a communist country would have done a better job"

WHAT??? where? when? how?

you pulled the switcheroo there, changing the dialogue that was only that capitalism caused the Dust Bowl (responding originally that the free market "allows farmers and markets to innovate")



consider yourself BUSTED.

hah, take that