THIS is what we are warning you all about!!

[seer]

Then why are you bringing mental health professionals up? Especially when it comes to public policy?

Public policy needs to be based upon facts not the hateful rhetoric of the religious right seeking to impose its values against LGBT folk.

Impose what values, that anatomical males should not be using the girl's showers? Do you think only people of faith would object to this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...f_Human_Rights

Note those that abstained, do you support theiryour religious presuppositions for which there's NO substantive evidence?

The point of my link Tass was to show that even the scientists of the American Anthropological Association do not think it is a good idea to shove your "enlightened" western values on other countries that don't share said values. Cultural relativism rules the day in your world Tass, and it can never be otherwise since rights can not be grounded in anything objective or non-subjective.


Yes like they do in North Korea or China. Got it...

The founding fathers were grounded in the values of The Enlightenment, otherwise known as The Age of Reason, not a deity.

That is an out right lie. Where did Jefferson ground human rights Tass? Do you want me to start quoting the Founders? BTW - try educating yourself. From the Library of Congress: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/

[Rational Gaze]

The founding fathers were grounded in the values of The Enlightenment, otherwise known as The Age of Reason, not a deity.

Except the overwhelming majority of Enlightenment era thinkers were theists. Even Voltaire and Hume, the most vociferous attackers of religion of the time, were deists. Although, as a side note, Voltaire later attended Catholic church services towards the end of his life. A good chunk of the US founding fathers, however, were avowed Christians, which their own writings make very clear. I understand that you have an agenda to push, factual accuracy and historical literacy be damned, but you should probably avoid making such evidently false claim about a subject that many on this forum know well. If you're going to push historical revisionism, then it's best to stick to obscure areas of history that not many people know about.

[Tassman]

Except the overwhelming majority of Enlightenment era thinkers were theists. Even Voltaire and Hume, the most vociferous attackers of religion of the time, were deists. Although, as a side note, Voltaire later attended Catholic church services towards the end of his life. A good chunk of the US founding fathers, however, were avowed Christians, which their own writings make very clear. I understand that you have an agenda to push, factual accuracy and historical literacy be damned, but you should probably avoid making such evidently false claim about a subject that many on this forum know well. If you're going to push historical revisionism, then it's best to stick to obscure areas of history that not many people know about.

The only "historical revisionism" being pushed here is the Evangelical line that the US was founded as a Christian nation, whereas "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". Treaty of Tripoli. Nor is Christianity, Jesus or God referred to in The Constitution.

[Tassman]

Then why are you bringing mental health professionals up? Especially when it comes to public policy?

North Carolina passed a flagrantly discriminatory bill barring transgender people from using the public restroom of the gender with which they identify (not to mention restricting cities from passing non discrimination laws) effectively manufacturing a national flashpoint around an issue that had never before even been a problem. This is unacceptable in that public policy must be based upon the rights of ALL citizens including LGBT people, who have been determined by mental health professionals to be normal people.

Impose what values, that anatomical males should not be using the girl's showers? Do you think only people of faith would object to this?

https://valerietarico.com/2016/05/27...ght-sex-rules/

The point of my link Tass was to show that even the scientists of the American Anthropological Association do not think it is a good idea to shove your "enlightened" western values on other countries that don't share said values. Cultural relativism rules the day in your world Tass, and it can never be otherwise since rights can not be grounded in anything objective or non-subjective.

There will be some differences of opinion, inevitably; nevertheless there were 48 signatory nations that found the Declaration of Human Rights sufficiently representative to endorse.

Yes like they do in North Korea or China. Got it...

Really! We see where theocracies have got us.

That is an out right lie. Where did Jefferson ground human rights Tass? Do you want me to start quoting the Founders?

[seer]

North Carolina passed a flagrantly discriminatory bill barring transgender people from using the public restroom of the gender with which they identify (not to mention restricting cities from passing non discrimination laws) effectively manufacturing a national flashpoint around an issue that had never before even been a problem. This is unacceptable in that public policy must be based upon the rights of ALL citizens including LGBT people, who have been determined by mental health professionals to be normal people.

Right Tass, after the Charlotte ordinance was passed. And that is the point - again, anatomical males or females need to use the bathroom/locker that matches their sex. There is no Constitutional right to use the bathroom that you "feel" like using. I certainly do not have that right.

There does not need to be a problem to hold the common sense view that you don't let anatomical males share the showers with girls at the local Y for instance. And I'm not stopping any one from sleeping with whom they choose. This is about public facilities.

There will be some differences of opinion, inevitably; nevertheless there were 48 signatory nations that found the Declaration of Human Rights sufficiently representative to endorse.

You are sill missing the point. Your scientific friends from American Anthropological Association don't believe that our "enlightened" western values should be universal, that would be cultural imperialism.

Really! We see where theocracies have got us.

But your Declaration of Human Rights is not universal, how many countries have signed it? How many countries are there? And even many of the countries that did sign it, don't follow it. It is a non-starter Tass, it's going no where.


Again Tass, where did Jefferson and the Founders ground human rights? And where does the Constitution use the term "Separation of church and state?" And what did that mean - you do realize that many early states, like mine, had tax supported Churches.

[Bill the Cat]

The only "historical revisionism" being pushed here is the Evangelical line that the US was founded as a Christian nation, whereas "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". Treaty of Tripoli. Nor is Christianity, Jesus or God referred to in The Constitution.

That treaty was cowardice and historical revisionism at its finest.

[Cow Poke]

Nor is Christianity, Jesus or God referred to in The Constitution.

When was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

[Sea of red]

When was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence?

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

When they talk about 'Natures God' they were referencing some sort of deism/pantheism.

Not that it should matter what people two and half centuries ago believed.

[Sparko]

When they talk about 'Natures God' they were referencing some sort of deism/pantheism.

Not that it should matter what people two and half centuries ago believed.

no, they weren't.

[Cow Poke]

When they talk about 'Natures God' they were referencing some sort of deism/pantheism.

Not that it should matter what people two and half centuries ago believed.

Laughing hard. Thanks, Sea... I needed a laugh.

[Sea of red]

no, they weren't.

OK.

[Sea of red]

Laughing hard. Thanks, Sea... I needed a laugh.

I like to help spread cheer within the senior community.

[Sparko]

I like to help spread cheer within the senior community.

send us bacon.

[Sea of red]

send us bacon.

No, bacon, cheeseburger!

[Cow Poke]

I like to help spread cheer within the senior community.

Much appreciated - I'm moving, and was tired and downtrodden.