Bill Nye The Idiot Guy

[HMS_Beagle]

Is anal sex by a married hetero couple immoral? Yes or no, and why?

Anyone else want to take a shot at answering this? I say NO for the reasons I already gave.

[rogue06]

Is anal sex by a married hetero couple immoral? Yes or no, and why?

Anyone else want to take a shot at answering this? I say NO for the reasons I already gave.

There are a lot of things that while not being illegal or even wrong aren't then by default moral.

[HMS_Beagle]

There are a lot of things that while not being illegal or even wrong aren't then by default moral.

Was that a yes or a no or a maybe?

What are your non-biblical criteria for deciding if something is moral or immoral? Is the example I gave something in-between or amoral?

[Tassman]

There are a lot of things that while not being illegal or even wrong aren't then by default moral.

So, if anal sex by a married hetero couple is not "illegal" or "even wrong" then what is it...just a little bit immoral, is that it?

[NorrinRadd]

It's like Kellyanne Conway's "alternative facts". Religion is the other kind of true, alt-possible as it were.

That's basically the case. We don't share the same worldview as infidels, and we don't have the same view as to what constitute authoritative sources of knowledge. Since Scripture comprises words and doctrines, the sciences of philology and theology take precedence over the "natural" sciences in interpreting it. And since we (Xians) know the words and doctrines are from God, then they are true and factual, regardless of what other sciences claim.

I think Kellyanne's case is probably different. In her case (I don't recall the context of her remarks), I suspect that she was referring to an alternate data set, and/or a different interpretation of the same data. One completely unrelated thing that pops to mind is seeing Dr. H. Gilbert Welch show how medical statistics can be used and abused to make virtually opposite points.

[seer]

What about them?

Star said this: Basically every society in the history of the world, prior to Christian/Muslim colonialism was fine with homosexuality.

I made the point that there is no historical evidence that this is so. That is when you put your two cents in.

So abortion is "child sacrifice" now. Wow!

Sure, sacrificed for our convenience. But child sacrifice and infanticide were actually widely practiced. So back to my point: is something like infanticide or homosexuality morally acceptable just because they were widely practiced?

[Sparko]

You're still dancing around the question. I know you think it's icky and dangerous. Is anal sex by a married hetero couple immoral? Yes or no, and why?

Yes I think it is immoral because you are taking an unnecessary risk with the life of someone you claim to love.

I told you it depends on the specifics but you conveniently ignored that part.

My general guideline for "moral" or 'immoral" is: if the action causes or threatens to cause harm to others without the others agreeing to the risks then it's immoral. Hang gliding is much more dangerous than consensual anal sex but neither are immoral because the participants know and agree to the risks. Smoking in public is immoral because the second hand smoke poses a real health risk to those in the area who didn't agree to the smoking.

There, I gave you my reasoning, now let's hear yours.

your reasoning seems to be "if it can cause harm without it is immoral"

but that if you can talk someone into taking a risk, and then you harm them, it is fine. So basically if someone is convincing enough, they can get away with whatever they want to. So if I know that drinking draino could kill you, but I talk you into drinking it, then I did nothing immoral. or a scam artist who talks you into investing your retirement money in his ponzi scheme then he did nothing immoral.

[Sparko]

so we know have Beagle and Tassy on the record as claiming that incest is not immoral.

[seer]

so we now have Beagle and Tassy on the record as claiming that incest is not immoral.

It is consistent with their moral logic though...

[HMS_Beagle]

Yes I think it is immoral because you are taking an unnecessary risk with the life of someone you claim to love.

Jedidiah disagrees with you.

I believe that sex within marriage is moral.

Seems like you now agree morality is subjective.

How did you determine how much risk there needs to be to be considered immoral? Your reasoning seems to be "if it can cause harm even if the person taking the risk is aware then it's immoral" Oral sex slightly increases the chances of mouth cancer. Is oral sex immoral?

Hang gliding is an unnecessary risk. Is hang gliding immoral?

How do you determine what is "unnecessary"? Beyond getting food and water pretty much everything we do in modern society is unnecessary for survival.

but that if you can talk someone into taking a risk, and then you harm them, it is fine. So basically if someone is convincing enough, they can get away with whatever they want to. So if I know that drinking draino could kill you, but I talk you into drinking it, then I did nothing immoral. or a scam artist who talks you into investing your retirement money in his ponzi scheme then he did nothing immoral.

Once again you ignored what I wrote.

if the action causes or threatens to cause harm to others without the others agreeing to the risks then it's immoral.

If you talk someone into drinking Draino by lying about or hiding its effects them you are causing deliberate harm and are acting in an immoral manner. The other person didn't know about and didn't agree to the risk.

[tabibito]

Star said this: Basically every society in the history of the world, prior to Christian/Muslim colonialism was fine with homosexuality.

You might find that it is true of military centred societies though ... Ancient Greece, Roman Empire (not so much the republic), feudal Japan come to mind.

[Jedidiah]

Jedidiah disagrees with you.

You agree then that sex of any type between a legally married couple is moral then?

All sex? Or just some practices?

Can you point out where I said any practices between legally married couples are moral? I opted to ignore that question as it is "above my pay grade."

[HMS_Beagle]

Can you point out where I said any practices between legally married couples are moral?

Sure, you said it right here.

I believe that sex within marriage is moral.

Anal sex, oral sex, manual (hand) sex are all form of sex within marriage.

Do you now wish to retract or add qualifiers?

[Duragizer]

Yeah, I think this thread needs to be moved back out of Natural Science. Anal sex's moral standing is definitely not a scientific issue.

[Sparko]

Jedidiah disagrees with you.



Seems like you now agree morality is subjective.

How did you determine how much risk there needs to be to be considered immoral? Your reasoning seems to be "if it can cause harm even if the person taking the risk is aware then it's immoral" Oral sex slightly increases the chances of mouth cancer. Is oral sex immoral?

Hang gliding is an unnecessary risk. Is hang gliding immoral?

How do you determine what is "unnecessary"? Beyond getting food and water pretty much everything we do in modern society is unnecessary for survival.



Once again you ignored what I wrote.



If you talk someone into drinking Draino by lying about or hiding its effects them you are causing deliberate harm and are acting in an immoral manner. The other person didn't know about and didn't agree to the risk.

so now being honest is another condition? you keep moving those goal posts. who said they were lying? they might genuinely believe drinking draino won't hurt them. Or they tell the other person the risks and convince them to drink it anyway.

so why is lying to your spouse now immoral? Is that a rule? Is lying intrinsically immoral? why?


why is harming someone immoral only if they don't agree? why isn't it immoral even if they do agree?