Book Plunge: Can Christians Prove The Resurrection?

[Gary]

I can see that attention to detail is not your strong suit. I have been careful, in every case, to avoid saying that Christians always consult physicians along with prayer.

Jesus said that if you ask anything in his name that he would do it. So why do Christians need to go to doctors? Why not just go to the Great Physician every time for healing? If he is performing hundreds of millions of miracles around the globe, what prevents him from healing you, saving you the time and expense of a doctor's visit?

[Apologiaphoenix]

Have you read books on the reality of alien abductions? Have you read books on the reality of sea monsters? Have you read books on the reality of mermaids? Ghosts? Fairies?

Do you see me arguing on any of those?

[Gary]

Do you see me arguing on any of those?

In the view of skeptics, your supernatural tale filled with • Edited by a Moderator • and walking/talking dead bodies is in the same category as sea monsters, mermaids, and fairies. I know you don't like the comparison, but that is truly how we view your belief. Therefore, asking us to read books about reanimations (resurrections) and magic tricks/ignorant hysteria (miracles) is no different than asking us to read the latest scholarly works on mermaids.

But I'm reading your books, aren't I, Nick? I am reading your books to save you from your delusion.

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[One Bad Pig]

Jesus said that if you ask anything in his name that he would do it.

Context, Gary. Paul promises that God will supply all our needs, not all our wants. Sometimes, what we need most is a little humility, and healing would be counter-productive.

So why do Christians need to go to doctors? Why not just go to the Great Physician every time for healing? If he is performing hundreds of millions of miracles around the globe, what prevents him from healing you, saving you the time and expense of a doctor's visit?

The miraculous is not normally needed for healing; pretty much by definition, miracles are the exception rather than the norm. As I've told you before in other words, prayer is not like magic, forcing God to do what we want.

[Apologiaphoenix]

In the view of skeptics, your supernatural tale filled with • Edited by a Moderator • and walking/talking dead bodies is in the same category as sea monsters, mermaids, and fairies. I know you don't like the comparison, but that is truly how we view your belief. Therefore, asking us to read books about reanimations (resurrections) and magic tricks/ignorant hysteria (miracles) is no different than asking us to read the latest scholarly works on mermaids.

But I'm reading your books, aren't I, Nick? I am reading your books to save you from your delusion.

And your first paragraph proves the point I make about atheistic presuppositionalism. It's the starting presupposition that rational people don't believe this stuff. This is never backed. It's just asserted.

[Gary]

Context, Gary. Paul promises that God will supply all our needs, not all our wants. Sometimes, what we need most is a little humility, and healing would be counter-productive.

The miraculous is not normally needed for healing; pretty much by definition, miracles are the exception rather than the norm. As I've told you before in other words, prayer is not like magic, forcing God to do what we want.

I'm not talking about Paul's theology, I'm talking about Jesus' theology. Jesus specifically stated "Ask ANYTHING in my name and it will be done unto you." You are putting Paul's words in Jesus' mouth.

[Gary]

And your first paragraph proves the point I make about atheistic presuppositionalism. It's the starting presupposition that rational people don't believe this stuff. This is never backed. It's just asserted.

Do you believe in mermaids, ghosts, sea monsters, and fairies, Nick? If not, please give the evidence that these beings do not exist.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Keep proving my point.

[One Bad Pig]

I'm not talking about Paul's theology, I'm talking about Jesus' theology. Jesus specifically stated "Ask ANYTHING in my name and it will be done unto you." You are putting Paul's words in Jesus' mouth.

You are creating a false dichotomy by implying there's a difference, and taking a summary statement out of context in a fundy-literal manner. Jesus' statement was not made in a vacuum.

[Gary]

Keep proving my point.

And you are proving mine. In the modern world, there is no difference between making the claim for the reality of a reanimated/resurrected, walking/talking dead body and the reality of mermaids, sea monsters, and ghosts. The only evidence for any of these entities is eyewitness testimony, which modern science has shown to be incredibly unreliable.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Do you even understand the point? Scientism is a further example of it.

[Gary]

Do you even understand the point? Scientism is a further example of it.

The only evidence for any of these entities is eyewitness testimony, which modern science has shown to be incredibly unreliable.

People who believe in ghosts see ghosts. People who do not believe in ghosts do not see ghosts. People who believe in miracles experience miracles. People who do not believe in miracles do not.

It is all a trick of the mind...a delusion.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Obviously you don't.

Thanks for proving my point on atheistic presuppositionalism.

[psstein]

I don't believe in virgin Mary apparitions, faith-healings and exorcisms pony-boy.

Oh good, a Gary clone.

You need an argument. And saying "superstition" is not an argument. Fundy atheism 101 didn't teach you that, now did it?

[Gary]

Obviously you don't.

Thanks for proving my point on atheistic presuppositionalism.

No, it is called agnostic/atheistic rationalism. We believe in the reality of concepts and entities based on empirical evidence, not based on faith in the unreliable eyewitness testimony, of superstitious, uneducated Third World (and first century) peasants!