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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

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Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Also the bible says that Jehovah created everything alone, by himself, without help:

    Isaiah 44:24 "This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

    Yet the bible also says the Jesus is the creator, who created everything:

    John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    Col. 1:16-17 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

    So if God created everything himself, alone without help, and Jesus is also the creator who created everything, then the only conclusion is that Jesus is God.
    Jo. 1:3 "Through" not BY!!

    "Through - preposition
    1.
    in at one end, side, or surface and out at the other:
    to pass through a tunnel; We drove through Denver without stopping. Sun came through the window. ..."-http://www.dictionary.com/browse/through

    As an agent of God as all things were done "through" Him, Jesus, not BY him!!

    That raises a problem with Col 1:16 does it not?
    BU

    Comment


    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      You're doing a bit of assuming here. It is obvious from the NT that the LXX was not exclusively in use in first-century Judaea.
      That does not say it was not either now does it?
      BU

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
        Jo. 1:3 "Through" not BY!!

        "Through - preposition
        1.
        in at one end, side, or surface and out at the other:
        to pass through a tunnel; We drove through Denver without stopping. Sun came through the window. ..."-http://www.dictionary.com/browse/through

        As an agent of God as all things were done "through" Him, Jesus, not BY him!!

        That raises a problem with Col 1:16 does it not?
        BU
        no it doesn't. The Trinity is three persons yet ONE GOD. The Father created everything through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The three persons of the Trinity created everything as one God, Jehovah.

        You also totally ignored the fact that Jehovah said he created everything by himself and no other. How do you reconcile THAT with him creating "through" a Jesus who is another lesser being?

        But Col 1:16 does create a problem for YOU doesn't it? Since Col 1:16 does say everything was made by Christ. You have to deny Col 1:16. I don't.

        And back to my earlier post which you ignored when speaking about Jesus being "a God" :

        How many true Gods are there, BU? Just one. All other Gods are false Gods. Are you saying that Jesus is a false God?

        "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me" (Isaiah 43:10).


        Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come-- yes, let him foretell what will come. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."*
        Last edited by Sparko; 01-03-2018, 09:13 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          no it doesn't. The Trinity is three persons yet ONE GOD. The Father created everything through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The three persons of the Trinity created everything as one God, Jehovah.

          You also totally ignored the fact that Jehovah said he created everything by himself and no other. How do you reconcile THAT with him creating "through" a Jesus who is another lesser being?

          But Col 1:16 does create a problem for YOU doesn't it? Since Col 1:16 does say everything was made by Christ. You have to deny Col 1:16. I don't.

          And back to my earlier post which you ignored when speaking about Jesus being "a God" :

          How many true Gods are there, BU? Just one. All other Gods are false Gods. Are you saying that Jesus is a false God?

          "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me" (Isaiah 43:10).


          Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come-- yes, let him foretell what will come. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."*
          How many Gods, well the Bible Paul us at:-

          1 Corinthians 8:5, 6
          For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are manyusfor the Father is greater than I am.

          If this is what Jesus himself says who are we to dispute it?

          God is a relative term, is it not?
          BU
          Last edited by Bibleuser; 01-03-2018, 09:49 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
            How many Gods, well the Bible Paul us at:-

            1 Corinthians 8:5, 6
            For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are manyus one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
            Actually according to Jehovah there is only one God as I pointed out to you.
            Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

            Any other gods are FALSE gods. So if Jesus is a god and he is not Jehovah, that means he is a false god according to your own beliefs.


            God is a relative term, is it not?
            Not when speaking of the ONE True God. All others are false.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
              True,"holy one OF God" no problem with that, but not 'God the holy one.'
              BU
              I don't think you understand what "One" means.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
                This discussion can go in many different directions. But let me point out one insuperable (logical) problem, as I see it, surrounding the God-man nature of Christ. He is said to be both fully God and fully man. When Jesus died on the cross, (1) did the God-man Jesus die? (2) Did the God Jesus die? (3) Did the man Jesus die?

                Different Trinitarians answer these questions differently. I'd like to hear what you answer is.
                1
                God-man is a pagan concept -Demigod- so that cannot fit The Bible theology!
                "The Demigods of Greco-Roman Mythology
                The Greeks believed that their gods - particularly Zeus, the king of the gods - would periodically mate with humans and produce offspring by them. These offspring would be a sort-of hybrid: part-god and part-human, with some the qualities of each of their parents' races. Some examples of these "demigods", as they are called, are Heracles (Hercules) and Perseus, two legendary Greek heroes whose "divine" sides allegedly enabled them to achieve greater feats than mere mortals."-http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan2.html

                2
                God cannot die:-
                Habakkuk 1:12
                Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not diethe one man, Jesus Christ, abound to many!
                1 Timothy 2:5, 6
                For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a . . .

                According to The Bible.

                "It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."-Sir A.C. Doyle



                BU
                Last edited by Bibleuser; 01-04-2018, 08:27 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                  I don't think you understand what "One" means.
                  I know waht "holy one of" means.
                  BU

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    Not when speaking of the ONE True God. All others are false.
                    True; context always shows this up!
                    BU

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
                      1
                      God-man is a pagan concept
                      No it isn't.

                      -Demigod- so that cannot fit The Bible theology!
                      Good thing Jesus is not a Demi-God.


                      "The Demigods of Greco-Roman Mythology
                      The Greeks believed that their gods - particularly Zeus, the king of the gods - would periodically mate with humans and produce offspring by them.
                      Which is not how Jesus was conceived. There was no taking on human form, no seduction, and no intercourse.

                      These offspring would be a sort-of hybrid: part-god and part-human,
                      And Jesus is ALL God and ALL human. He alone has a dual nature. Not parts of each.

                      with some the qualities of each of their parents' races. Some examples of these "demigods", as they are called, are Heracles (Hercules) and Perseus, two legendary Greek heroes whose "divine" sides allegedly enabled them to achieve greater feats than mere mortals."-http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan2.html
                      https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2014/0...st-a-demi-god/


                      2
                      God cannot die:-
                      Habakkuk 1:12
                      Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not diethe one man, Jesus Christ, abound to many!
                      1 Timothy 2:5, 6
                      For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a . . .

                      According to The Bible.

                      "It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."-Sir A.C. Doyle



                      BU
                      https://carm.org/can-god-die
                      Last edited by Bill the Cat; 01-04-2018, 09:05 AM.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
                        True; context always shows this up!
                        BU
                        so then Jesus who John 1 says is "a god" must either be the SAME God as the Father but a different person, or he is a FALSE God according to Jehovah who said there are no other gods besides him. There is no other choice. Which is it?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          so then Jesus who John 1 says is "a god" must either be the SAME God as the Father but a different person, or he is a FALSE God according to Jehovah who said there are no other gods besides him. There is no other choice. Which is it?
                          One of many.
                          He is called The Word and
                          Jo 1:18 tell us which one.
                          BU

                          Comment


                          • Man-God = Demigod
                            No other way!
                            BU

                            Comment


                            • There can only be one "the Holy One". That's how "one" works. But let me do you a favor and explain to you why you're going to hell unless you accept the Son, that is, admit that He is God. The only way to be saved is to believe on, that is, do the will of, the Son. If you do not admit that He is God and therefore worthy of absolute obedience, there will come a point where you will refuse to do His will. That point is hell. Don't go to hell. Accept the Son.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bibleuser View Post
                                Man-God = Demigod
                                No other way!
                                BU
                                You do not understand. Jesus was both a man and the Son of God (John 5:18), one person, two natures, not mixed. He was not a demigod. Unless you as a Jehovah's Witness believe your Jesus Christ, a god, is a demigod.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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