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LDS - Mormonism Guidelines
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
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The LDS Church and Interracial Marriage.
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Imagine that... Kimball saying something stupid...That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostImagine that...Kimballa Mormon "prophet" saying something stupid...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt is not just Kimball. It is consistent with the history of the LDS church concerning race.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostUntil Hinckley, you mean...
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI am not sure of your point here. The view expressed by Hinckley is consistent with the view expressed in the history of the LDS church. Hinckley just reaffirmed the traditional belief. As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI am not sure of your point here. The view expressed by Hinckley is consistent with the view expressed in the history of the LDS church.
Hinckley just reaffirmed the traditional belief. As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostNo it wasn't.
Hinckley made it official, but as I said before the history of race and the church has a history, 'As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.'
The theology of the Mormon church changed in 1978.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostTake a closer look at the history of the LDS church.
Hinckley made it official, but as I said before the history of race and the church has a history, 'As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.'
Yes there was a change proposed and passed in 1978 was to allow blacks to have 'equal standing in the church,' but it was controversial and not unanimous within the church. It did not address the issue of Interracial Marriage.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostI know that Frank. That's why I made the comment "Until Hinckley". It actually started in earnest with Brigham Young.
Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. As the Mormons attempt to deal with their racist past, the official Mormon website claims there was no "church wide policy of segregation".
The "defense" of their racism is that the Mormon Church was started at a time when racism was quite prevalent - kind of an "everybody's doing it" argument. The problem with that is that the Mormon Church was SUPPOSEDLY restored by God directly through Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, yet the Mormon Church was no better than, and arguably worse than, other Churches at the time with regards to racism.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. As the Mormons attempt to deal with their racist past, the official Mormon website claims there was no "church wide policy of segregation".
The "defense" of their racism is that the Mormon Church was started at a time when racism was quite prevalent - kind of an "everybody's doing it" argument. The problem with that is that the Mormon Church was SUPPOSEDLY restored by God directly through Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, yet the Mormon Church was no better than, and arguably worse than, other Churches at the time with regards to racism.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostA Divine Revelation would not reflect the morals and ethics of the frail humans and their culture at the time of the Revelation.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. .
That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostElijah Abel was a curious case. There was substantial argument among the leaders that he was actually more white than black.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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