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The LDS Church and Interracial Marriage.

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  • The LDS Church and Interracial Marriage.

    Source: http://www.mormonstudies.net/html/kimball/ir_marriage.html



    President Spencer W. Kimball's Counsel on Interracial Marriage

    Cultural differences pose dangers for marriage. When I said you must teach your people to overcome their prejudices and accept the Indians, I did not mean that you would encourage intermarriage. I mean that they should be brothers, to worship together and to work together and to play together; but we must discourage intermarriage, not because it is sin. I would like to make this very emphatic. A couple has not committed sin if an Indian boy and a white girl are married, or vice versa. It isn’t a transgression like the transgressions of which many are guilty. But it is not expedient. Marriage statistics and our general experience convince us that marriage is not easy. It is difficult when all factors are favorable. The divorces increase constantly, even where the spouses have the same general background of race, religion, finances, education, and otherwise.
    The interrace marriage problem is not one of inferiority or superiority. It may be that your son is better educated and may be superior in his culture, and yet it may be on the other hand that she is superior to him. It is a matter of backgrounds. The difficulties and hazards of marriage are greatly increased where backgrounds are different. For a wealthy person to marry a pauper promises difficulties. For an ignoramus to marry one with a doctor’s degree promises difficulties, heartaches, misunderstandings, and broken marriages.
    When one considers marriage, it should be an unselfish thing, but there is not much selflessness when two people of different races plan marriage. They must be thinking selfishly of themselves. They certainly are not considering the problems that will beset each other and that will beset their children.
    If your son thinks he loves this girl, he would not want to inflict upon her loneliness and unhappiness; and if he thinks that his affection for her will solve all her problems, he should do some more mature thinking.
    We are unanimous, all of the Brethren, in feeling and recommending that Indians marry Indians, and Mexicans marry Mexicans; the Chinese marry Chinese and the Japanese marry Japanese; that the Caucasians marry the Caucasians, and the Arabs marry Arabs.

    (Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, edited by Edward L. Kimball [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982], 303.)

    © Copyright Original Source



    http://www.mormonstudies.net/html/ki..._marriage.html
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-10-2015, 08:08 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    Imagine that... Kimball saying something stupid...
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      Imagine that... Kimball a Mormon "prophet" saying something stupid...
      yeah, fixed that.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        It is not just Kimball. It is consistent with the history of the LDS church concerning race.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          It is not just Kimball. It is consistent with the history of the LDS church concerning race.
          Until Hinckley, you mean...
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            Until Hinckley, you mean...
            I am not sure of your point here. The view expressed by Hinckley is consistent with the view expressed in the history of the LDS church. Hinckley just reaffirmed the traditional belief. As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              I am not sure of your point here. The view expressed by Hinckley is consistent with the view expressed in the history of the LDS church. Hinckley just reaffirmed the traditional belief. As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.
              Yes
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                I am not sure of your point here. The view expressed by Hinckley is consistent with the view expressed in the history of the LDS church.
                No it wasn't.

                Source: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/660211384/Mixed-marriages-on-rise.html?pg=all


                That was helped during last year's 176th Annual General Conference, Jacobson said, when LDS Church President Gordon B. Hinckley spoke out against racism, saying "no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ."

                © Copyright Original Source



                Hinckley just reaffirmed the traditional belief. As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.
                The theology of the Mormon church changed in 1978.
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  No it wasn't.
                  Take a closer look at the history of the LDS church.

                  Source: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/660211384/Mixed-marriages-on-rise.html?pg=all


                  That was helped during last year's 176th Annual General Conference, Jacobson said, when LDS Church President Gordon B. Hinckley spoke out against racism, saying "no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ."

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  Hinckley made it official, but as I said before the history of race and the church has a history, 'As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.'

                  The theology of the Mormon church changed in 1978.
                  Yes there was a change proposed and passed in 1978 was to allow blacks to have 'equal standing in the church,' but it was controversial and not unanimous within the church. It did not address the issue of Interracial Marriage.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Take a closer look at the history of the LDS church.

                    Source: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/660211384/Mixed-marriages-on-rise.html?pg=all


                    That was helped during last year's 176th Annual General Conference, Jacobson said, when LDS Church President Gordon B. Hinckley spoke out against racism, saying "no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ."

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Hinckley made it official, but as I said before the history of race and the church has a history, 'As far as racism in general there have been recent attempts to resolve 'racism' issues to make the LDS church more inclusive, but nonetheless the history of the church, and the theology of the church concerning the nature of 'race' has made it difficult for the church to resolve these issues consistently.'
                    I know that Frank. That's why I made the comment "Until Hinckley". It actually started in earnest with Brigham Young.


                    Yes there was a change proposed and passed in 1978 was to allow blacks to have 'equal standing in the church,' but it was controversial and not unanimous within the church. It did not address the issue of Interracial Marriage.
                    Yes it did. It addressed EVERY issue with regard to race. Mormons believe in changing revelations. Therefore, such blatant contradictions in proclamations from God are easily dismissed.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      I know that Frank. That's why I made the comment "Until Hinckley". It actually started in earnest with Brigham Young.


                      Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. As the Mormons attempt to deal with their racist past, the official Mormon website claims there was no "church wide policy of segregation".

                      The "defense" of their racism is that the Mormon Church was started at a time when racism was quite prevalent - kind of an "everybody's doing it" argument. The problem with that is that the Mormon Church was SUPPOSEDLY restored by God directly through Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, yet the Mormon Church was no better than, and arguably worse than, other Churches at the time with regards to racism.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post


                        Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. As the Mormons attempt to deal with their racist past, the official Mormon website claims there was no "church wide policy of segregation".

                        The "defense" of their racism is that the Mormon Church was started at a time when racism was quite prevalent - kind of an "everybody's doing it" argument. The problem with that is that the Mormon Church was SUPPOSEDLY restored by God directly through Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, yet the Mormon Church was no better than, and arguably worse than, other Churches at the time with regards to racism.
                        A Divine Revelation would not reflect the morals and ethics of the frail humans and their culture at the time of the Revelation.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          A Divine Revelation would not reflect the morals and ethics of the frail humans and their culture at the time of the Revelation.
                          Smith was a fraud. He wasn't getting Divine Revelations, and neither were subsequent "prophets" of the Mormon Church.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post


                            Smith actually seemed open to relationships with blacks, ordaining a few of them to the "priesthood". One of them was Elijah Abel, who also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio. .
                            Elijah Abel was a curious case. There was substantial argument among the leaders that he was actually more white than black.

                            Source: http://blog.mrm.org/2008/02/elijah-abel-thy-soul-shall-be-white-in-eternity/


                            Following is the text of Elijah Abel’s Patriarchal Blessing, pronounced by Joseph Smith, Sr., circa 1836:


                            [Patriarchal] Blessing of Elijah Able who was born in Frederick County, Maryland, July 25th 1808.

                            Brother Able, in the name of Jesus Christ I lay my hands upon thy head to bless thee and thou shalt be blessed even forever. I seal upon thee a father’s blessing, because thou art an orphan, for thy father, hath never done his duty toward thee, but the Lord hast had his eye upon thee, and brought thee through straits and thou hast come to be rec[k]oned with the saints of the most High. Thou hast been ordained an Elder and anointed to secure thee against the power of the destroyer. Thou shalt see his power in laying waste the nations, & the wicked slaying the wicked, while blood shall run down the streets like water, and thy heart shall weep over their calamities. Angels shall visit thee and thou shalt receive comfort. They shall call thee blessed and deliver thee from thine enemies. They shall break thy bands and keep thee from afflictions. Thy name is written in the Lamb’s book of life.

                            Thou shalt travel in the East and visit foreign countries, speak in all various tongues, and thou shalt be able to teach different languages. Thou shall see visions of this world and other worlds and comprehend the laws of all kingdoms, and confound the wisdom of this generation. Thy life shall be preserved to a good old age. Thou must seek first the kingdom of heaven and all blessings shall be added thereunto. Thou shalt be made equal to thy brethren and thy soul be white in eternity and thy robes glittering: thou shalt receive these blessings because of the covenants of thy fathers. Thou shalt save thousands, do much good, and receive all the power that thou needest to accomplish thy mission. These and all the blessings which thou canst desire in righteousness, I seal upon thee, in the name of Jesus, Amen.

                            W.A. Cowdery Assist. Recorder [emphasis added]

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            “…It is true that elders of the church laid hands on a Negro and blessed him ‘apparently’ with the Priesthood, but they could not give that which the Lord had denied. It is true that Elijah Abel was so ‘ordained.’ This was however before the matter had been submitted to the Prophet Joseph Smith. …It was afterwards that the Prophet Joseph Smith declared that the Negro was not to be ordained.” (Letter from Joseph Fielding Smith to Joseph H. Henderson, April 10, 1963)
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              Elijah Abel was a curious case. There was substantial argument among the leaders that he was actually more white than black.

                              Source: http://blog.mrm.org/2008/02/elijah-abel-thy-soul-shall-be-white-in-eternity/


                              Following is the text of Elijah Abel’s Patriarchal Blessing, pronounced by Joseph Smith, Sr., circa 1836:


                              [Patriarchal] Blessing of Elijah Able who was born in Frederick County, Maryland, July 25th 1808.

                              Brother Able, in the name of Jesus Christ I lay my hands upon thy head to bless thee and thou shalt be blessed even forever. I seal upon thee a father’s blessing, because thou art an orphan, for thy father, hath never done his duty toward thee, but the Lord hast had his eye upon thee, and brought thee through straits and thou hast come to be rec[k]oned with the saints of the most High. Thou hast been ordained an Elder and anointed to secure thee against the power of the destroyer. Thou shalt see his power in laying waste the nations, & the wicked slaying the wicked, while blood shall run down the streets like water, and thy heart shall weep over their calamities. Angels shall visit thee and thou shalt receive comfort. They shall call thee blessed and deliver thee from thine enemies. They shall break thy bands and keep thee from afflictions. Thy name is written in the Lamb’s book of life.

                              Thou shalt travel in the East and visit foreign countries, speak in all various tongues, and thou shalt be able to teach different languages. Thou shall see visions of this world and other worlds and comprehend the laws of all kingdoms, and confound the wisdom of this generation. Thy life shall be preserved to a good old age. Thou must seek first the kingdom of heaven and all blessings shall be added thereunto. Thou shalt be made equal to thy brethren and thy soul be white in eternity and thy robes glittering: thou shalt receive these blessings because of the covenants of thy fathers. Thou shalt save thousands, do much good, and receive all the power that thou needest to accomplish thy mission. These and all the blessings which thou canst desire in righteousness, I seal upon thee, in the name of Jesus, Amen.

                              W.A. Cowdery Assist. Recorder [emphasis added]

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              “…It is true that elders of the church laid hands on a Negro and blessed him ‘apparently’ with the Priesthood, but they could not give that which the Lord had denied. It is true that Elijah Abel was so ‘ordained.’ This was however before the matter had been submitted to the Prophet Joseph Smith. …It was afterwards that the Prophet Joseph Smith declared that the Negro was not to be ordained.” (Letter from Joseph Fielding Smith to Joseph H. Henderson, April 10, 1963)
                              Interesting. Didn't know that.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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