Originally posted by pancreasman
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And as usual, the forum rules apply.
Forum Rules: Here
World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude certain religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism. If you are not sure, ask a moderator.
This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God.
And as usual, the forum rules apply.
Forum Rules: Here
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Being a religion of peace
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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"Peace" can be understood in different ways....
If it is understood not just as a "value" but a path (a way of conduct) then 2 things must be considered and balanced together... promotion of good conduct and restraint of bad conduct.
Thus "to bully" would be considered bad conduct and such conduct must be regulated and restrained....which means the one being bullied can seek protection by using these socio-legal restraints/regulations.....(---in other words...resorting to justice instead of violence....)
restraint of bad conduct also means that in the event of self-defense (when there is no recourse to justice and one must defend oneself from bullying) then such self-defense cannot go over into revenge...once the attacks stop, the defensive actions must also stop....otherwise such actions become attacks and fall into "bad conduct".
As a "path" to peace...it is not enough to consider options after violence has occurred....but also to have guidelines for everyday promotion of good conduct and restraint of bad conduct---in other words codes of conduct (manners, etiquette) must be practiced and lived.
If we consider Peace as a value/principle---then there are 2 considerations we must take into account---Peace that comes about through Justice (the use of free-will) and Peace that comes about through oppression (constraints on free-will). A philosophy that advocates for peace through oppression would be promoting injustice. From the Quranic perspective..."Just Peace" is a principle that is worth fighting for.
If we consider Peace as a spiritual level (Oneness/Unity/God-awareness/Nirvana) Then in the Islamic context---this is a discipline and a methodology....
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostNo one addressed Cow Poke's comment, Read in Matthew 10: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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I agree with you about how to interpret Jesus' role. Some of His actions (and certainly His direct teaching) were surely meant as exemplars. Others were meant to be substitutionary. There are lots of schools of thought that parse the dividing line in different places.
As to Quakers (which you didn't ask me about), it's true that they don't expect every member to be pacifist. I was simply making the point that people of integrity can read the same text and arrive at different attitudes. I certainly don't know who's right.
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Originally posted by siam View PostHow would Christians understand this passage...?....
Luke 19 : 27
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Said by Jesus)
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Originally posted by siam View PostHow would Christians understand this passage...?....
Luke 19 : 27
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Said by Jesus)"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Originally posted by siam View PostHow would Christians understand this passage...?....
Luke 19 : 27
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Said by Jesus)
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Originally posted by Cerealman View PostI'm assuming that Christians should be peaceful when needed but defend/fight when it's needed.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by siam View PostHow would Christians understand this passage...?....
Luke 19 : 27
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Said by Jesus)
You really should read the verses in context before trying to post them in an argument.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostPlease expand on the point of the story. A parable may be a parable, but this one is pretty violent parable."Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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