Your religious beliefs are false, now what?

[pancreasman]

I guess I am having a difficult time understanding this. As a trained scientist, don't you believe things like the law of gravity are certainties? I know that sounds like a silly comparison, but I am just trying to establish a baseline.

No I don't. Remember Newton? He said this:

2000px-NewtonsLawOfUniversalGravitation.svg.jpg

Einstein came along and showed that was good as far as it went, but he revolutionised our understanding of gravity as motion due to the curvature of space which in some cases matches Newton but produces different testable results in other areas. Newton's law of gravity is not absolutely true. And probably neither is Einstein's.

[Cow Poke]

Einstein came along and showed that was good as far as it went, but he revolutionised our understanding of gravity as motion due to the curvature of space which in some cases matches Newton but produces different testable results in other areas. Newton's law of gravity is not absolutely true. And probably neither is Einstein's.

But, doesn't an apple a day still keep the doctor away? And an onion a day keeps everybody away?

[pancreasman]

But, doesn't an apple a day still keep the doctor away? And an onion a day keeps everybody away?

Ask our idiot PM. Touring an agricultural area he was handed a raw onion, which he promptly ate, skin and all. He's a conservative of course.

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[37818]

Are there other things you believe you know with absolute certainty?

That I exist. Some basic concepts of math. 1 + 1 = 2. The square root of 25 is +5 or -5 [base 10]. Our earth has a Sun and a the Moon. Things can change. And some things do not, such as a truth. I need air to breath. Need food and water to live.

[Cow Poke]

That I exist. Some basic concepts of math. 1 + 1 = 2.

Except, of course, for unusually large values of 1.

[Jesse]

No I don't. Remember Newton? He said this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5793[/ATTACH]

Einstein came along and showed that was good as far as it went, but he revolutionised our understanding of gravity as motion due to the curvature of space which in some cases matches Newton but produces different testable results in other areas. Newton's law of gravity is not absolutely true. And probably neither is Einstein's.

I don't think I was clear, so let me try again. If I jump up in the air, isn't it true that I will fall back down? Wouldn't that be considered a certainty?

[pancreasman]

That I exist. Some basic concepts of math. 1 + 1 = 2. The square root of 25 is +5 or -5 [base 10]. Our earth has a Sun and a the Moon. Things can change. And some things do not, such as a truth. I need air to breath. Need food and water to live.

Not me. I have read said quite believable refutations of Descartes to remove its certainty. Math is made up. How can it be absolutely true?

[37818]

Not me. I have read said quite believable refutations of Descartes to remove its certainty.

Are you certain of that?

Math is made up.

The forms we use. But the truths that those forms represent are abstracts of what is real. Do you do a budget? Does it require any math? Why even bother?

How can it be absolutely true?

Do you even believe that truth is absolute?

2 + 2 = 4 [base 10]. Do you think disallowing this will make it not true?

[pancreasman]

Are you certain of that?


The forms we use. But the truths that those forms represent are abstracts of what is real. Do you do a budget? Does it require any math? Why even bother?


Do you even believe that truth is absolute?

2 + 2 = 4 [base 10]. Do you think disallowing this will make it not true?

You're confusing 'absolutely true' with 'useful in limited circumstances'. The rules of Arithmetic is fine as long as certain axioms are predefined and accepted. But arithmetic is a limited kind of truth. For example in arithmetic the square root of negative one is a nonsense. In other kinds of mathematics it is useful and necessary.

[pancreasman]

Are you certain of that?

?

Can we please stop playing that card? No, I am not absolutely certain I've read it. Get over it.

[Juvenal]

I understand that your schtick of being a pompous tool is how you post, but thinking that your lone voice can shoo me out of my own thread is a bit much, even for you.

On the other hand, your incomprehension seems entirely natural. It does detract from the thread, though.

I guess I was wrong, it seems to be very difficult for you to understand the meaning of simple concepts. Those atheists didn't find their faith proven false concretely or by a shadow of a doubt. A personal (dis)belief is not proof. The fact that you seem incapable of understanding that is troublesome. But I don't think that is true of you.

I think you know full well what is being asked ...

On the other hand, there's good reason to believe you don't. We could start with the fact you couldn't pose it coherently and go from there.

... but you refuse to answer it ...

Untrue, and as it was quoted back at you again, I'll call you a liar on this one.

One more time, then ...

More directly, I have a "pat" answer to what I'd find convincing enough to rejoin Christianity: the proof of Thomas. While it's conceivable that some highly intelligent extra-terrestrial race could mimic a man coming through a closed door and asking me to place my hand in his side, anything sufficiently advanced to pinch-hit for Jesus in that fashion might as well be Jesus, and I'd take up my old beliefs again.

"I'd take up my old beliefs again."

There's your answer, for the third time now. Feel free to chop it out again. Maybe it'll vanish from the internet this time!

John 20:27: Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

... as it gives you an excuse to write dissertations no one cares about.

Dissertations are most often written for a restricted audience. Sorry if you feel left out.

So I am going to let go of thinking ...

It's not as if you had it in a firm grasp.

[Paprika]

Clawnus, huh? Has a nice ring to it.

Clownus

[37818]

You're confusing 'absolutely true' with 'useful in limited circumstances'. The rules of Arithmetic is fine as long as certain axioms are predefined and accepted. But arithmetic is a limited kind of truth. For example in arithmetic the square root of negative one is a nonsense. In other kinds of mathematics it is useful and necessary.

There are absolute truths underlining the rules of Arithmetic. 1 + 1 = 2. | + | = | |.

Can we please stop playing that card? No, I am not absolutely certain I've read it. Get over it.

Making the statement "there are no absolute truths" is self defeating, in that it is making an absolute statement.

So there are absolute truths.
Absolute truth can be know.
Can we know all absolute truths? I do not think so.
Can we be wrong about what we think is an absolute truth. Yes, I think so.
Some honestly, in their minds, they think, cannot be certain about anything. Not being able to be certain about anything is a self defeating view. It is never always true, even when it is true.
That we can wrong about what we believe, that is true.

[pancreasman]

There are absolute truths underlining the rules of Arithmetic. 1 + 1 = 2. | + | = | |.



Making the statement "there are no absolute truths" is self defeating, in that it is making an absolute statement.

So there are absolute truths.
Absolute truth can be know.
Can we know all absolute truths? I do not think so.
Can we be wrong about what we think is an absolute truth. Yes, I think so.
Some honestly, in their minds, they think, cannot be certain about anything. Not being able to be certain about anything is a self defeating view. It is never always true, even when it is true.
That we can wrong about what we believe, that is true.

Please read what I actually say. I am not asserting there are no absolute truths. I am simply asserting that I, personally, may be wrong about what I think is true.

[shunyadragon]

Are you absolutely certain about that?

Can you be absolutely certain about anything concerning religion?