Science of Morality

[shunyadragon]

No, I am an Arminian who believes in LFW. The fact is there is no freedom in determinism - being free and determined is a contradiction.

Not in 'compatibolism,' and by the evidence some choices and decisions can be determined beyond our free will and some choices and decisions may be subject to our free will

[JimL]

Then you are left with determinism - you have no control over what you think, believe or do - period. So what the ISIS killers did was what nature determined them to do.

Why did you choose to be a christian? If you were born in the middle east, against all the evidence to the contrary, do you think that your Libertarian free willed soul would have chosen to be a christian or would it be more likely that you were determined by antecedent conditions to choose to be a muslim? Which thoughts win out, which thoughts end up being the most powerful, is what determines you.
Btw, in regards to a previous post of yours, if the physical brain is that which produces immaterial thoughts, then it would also have to have an understanding of the meaning of those thoughts, otherwise it makes no sense to call them thoughts, and that would leave there no need of a distinct agency or soul in order to interpret those thoughts.

[Tassman]

Therefore, you are a Calvinist.

[Tassman]

But that is not the point Tass, if I know something "in my heart" then it was nature that determined me to believe that in your deterministic world.

If you

And when ISIS slaughters the innocent they are no more morally responsible than when a chimp kills another chimp. After all we are just as determined as the chimp - as you so often told us.

[seer]

Not in 'compatibolism,' and by the evidence some choices and decisions can be determined beyond our free will and some choices and decisions may be subject to our free will

So some of our choices are not determined?

[seer]

If you

But it is still all determined in your world. This doesn't change a thing.



It is not a debate tactic Tass, how many times have you told me that our will is no more free than the ape's? And that is the point, the ISIS fighters were doing what nature determined them to do (if you are correct). And are no more morally responsible than the chimp that kills another chimp.

[shunyadragon]

So some of our choices are not determined?

True, that is what the scientific research indicates, and supports the belief inn compatibilism.

[seer]

True, that is what the scientific research indicates, and supports the belief inn compatibilism.

Good so everything is not determined.

[shunyadragon]

Good so everything is not determined.

Again true, and LFW is demonstrated as false.

[seer]

Again true, and LFW is demonstrated as false.

Prove it.

[shunyadragon]

Prove it.

Science does not prove things. Neither can you offer a proof of LFW. It is simply a Theistic assertion to justify you religious agenda.

[Tassman]

Prove it.

Come now! You're the one making the claim that 'libertarian free-will' exists so the burden of proof rests with you. You have the sheer effrontery to demand full explanations from others but exempt yourself from supporting your own incoherent faith beliefs. What a travesty.

[Tassman]

But it is still all determined in your world. This doesn't change a thing.





It is not a debate tactic Tass, how many times have you told me that our will is no more free than the ape's? And that is the point, the ISIS fighters were doing what nature determined them to do (if you are correct). And are no more morally responsible than the chimp that kills another chimp.

feel

[seer]

Science does not prove things. Neither can you offer a proof of LFW. It is simply a Theistic assertion to justify you religious agenda.

OK, so you can't support your position - noted... And yes Shuny, it is a Theistic assertion, just like the assertion about the human soul which you also believe exists. So you get to have assertions and I don't?

[seer]

feel that we can choose what we do, our understanding of the molecular basis of biology shows that all biological processes are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry and therefore are as determined as anything else in the universe.

There is no parody involved Tass. The ISIS killers were doing what nature determined them to do, we have no more freedom than an ape (according to you). And the ISIS killers are no more morally responsible than the ape for what he does - that is no parody Tass, that IS your worldview.