Science of Morality

[Tassman]

Again, this is completely subjective Tass. Let me repeat - what would a universe created by a God look like as opposed to a universe created by a natural force? And God is no more a failed hypothesis than your various natural theories for creation. Of the dozen or so theories which one is correct? Which one has been demonstrated by prediction and physical evidence?

Right and you can never know when you are determined to believe that false things are true.

It is not fatalism, it is simple determinism - where you have no control over what you think or do. You again are a sock puppet to antecedent conditions. And who knows where you are being determined to believe that false things are true - you certainly would not.

You dodged the question again Tass. You claimed that the natural was all that existed - please prove that claim.

[seer]

Tass do you have any control over what you believe, think or do? Or is it all determined by antecedent conditions?

[Tassman]

Tass do you have any control over what you believe, think or do?

Waiting!

Or is it all determined by antecedent conditions?

The antecedents which influence your decision-making processes include (among other factors) your entire history of sensory experiences (incorporating social acculturation), plus many other factors such as brain trauma, mental illness or dementia etc. For you to argue that the subconscious-self or the current state of your physical brain plays no part in your decision-making processes is not supported by the facts.

[seer]

Waiting!

I did not say anything about a soul, I asked you a simple question - do you have any control over what you think, believe or do?

[Tassman]

I did not say anything about a soul, I asked you a simple question - do you have any control over what you think, believe or do?

And I asked what you meant by which has the power to override the determined causal stream of which we're all a part, then the answer is no. It makes no coherent sense to think in these terms.

Hence you exonerate yourself from the biological processes of the brain as governed by the laws of physics and chemistry, which leaves you free to believe any illogical nonsense you like. You just that your religious ideology is true just as, say ISIS just its religious ideology is true. Neither belief systems can be supported by credible evidence and, given the history of religion, the consequences are often disastrous...the current attacks in Paris spring to mind.

[shunyadragon]

Tass do you have any control over what you believe, think or do? Or is it all determined by antecedent conditions?

You persist in presenting two extreme possibilities. Neither is true by the evidence.

[seer]

And I asked what you meant by which has the power to override the determined causal stream of which we're all a part, then the answer is no. It makes no coherent sense to think in these terms.

Hence you exonerate yourself from the biological processes of the brain as governed by the laws of physics and chemistry, which leaves you free to believe any illogical nonsense you like. You just that your religious ideology is true just as, say ISIS just its religious ideology is true. Neither belief systems can be supported by credible evidence and, given the history of religion, the consequences are often disastrous...the current attacks in Paris spring to mind.

Just remember Tass, the murderers in Paris last night were only doing what nature determined them to do - no big deal, just nature doing what nature does...

[Tassman]

Just remember Tass, the murderers in Paris last night were only doing what nature determined them to do - no big deal, just nature doing what nature does...

[JimL]

Just remember Tass, the murderers in Paris last night were only doing what nature determined them to do - no big deal, just nature doing what nature does...

Change the antecedent conditions and their choices would be different. We call it brainwashing, but it is what we teach our children that makes them who they are and what they believe.

[seer]

But that is not the point Tass, if I know something "in my heart" then it was nature that determined me to believe that in your deterministic world. And when ISIS slaughters the innocent they are no more morally responsible than when a chimp kills another chimp. After all we are just as determined as the chimp - as you so often told us.

[seer]

Change the antecedent conditions and their choices would be different. We call it brainwashing, but it is what we teach our children that makes them who they are and what they believe.

Sorry Jim, there is no escape from determinism. What we believe and teach our children is just as determined as anything else. We have no control over any of it.

[shunyadragon]

Sorry Jim, there is no escape from determinism. What we believe and teach our children is just as determined as anything else. We have no control over any of it.

Therefore, you are a Calvinist.

[JimL]

Sorry Jim, there is no escape from determinism. What we believe and teach our children is just as determined as anything else. We have no control over any of it.

Yes, decisions are determined, determined by what is in ones head, but what is in ones head is conflicting information and the battle that goes on in ones head can be influenced by new information supplied by other brains. How does your ghost in the machines thought process work? I know, you have no idea how it works, you can't even try to make sense of it because there is no making sense of it. LFW makes no more sense in your air headed, or empty headed ghost/soul than it does in information based materialism.

[seer]

Therefore, you are a Calvinist.

No, I am an Arminian who believes in LFW. The fact is there is no freedom in determinism - being free and determined is a contradiction.

[seer]

Yes, decisions are determined, determined by what is in ones head, but what is in ones head is conflicting information and the battle that goes on in ones head can be influenced by new information supplied by other brains. How does your ghost in the machines thought process work? I know, you have no idea how it works, you can't even try to make sense of it because there is no making sense of it. LFW makes no more sense in your air headed, or empty headed ghost/soul than it does in information based materialism.

Then you are left with determinism - you have no control over what you think, believe or do - period. So what the ISIS killers did was what nature determined them to do.