Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Is "Why is there something rather than nothing?" a legitimate question?
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"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostNo, there is not literally one moment where all events exist together, on the B-Theory. That's a Straw Man which I have repeatedly told you is not the case. While it may be easier to knock down that Straw Man than to deal with the actual B-Theory, it remains fallacious to do so.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostNo, there is not literally one moment where all events exist together, on the B-Theory. That's a Straw Man which I have repeatedly told you is not the case. While it may be easier to knock down that Straw Man than to deal with the actual B-Theory, it remains fallacious to do so.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBut you said yourself that all events exist "at once" in the same way that the north and south pole at exist "at once."Last edited by Boxing Pythagoras; 01-04-2017, 01:42 PM."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut how can you speak of "moments" without flow in the first place? What distinguishes one moment from the next? Doesn't my past, present and future exist together in this universe?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostMoments in time are distinguished from one another in exactly the same way as positions in space are distinguished from one another despite being coextant. The fact that two things exist together does not imply that they are therefore the same thing.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostNo, I said that all events exist "at once" in the same way that the North Pole and South Pole exist "at one location."
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut again, how can you have moments without flow?
If time is really static then that can not be the thing that distinguishes events, physical location can be what makes the difference, but not time since time never changes, or flows.
blank-timeline-template_83319.png
Now, here's a model of a single dimension of space on both the A-Theory and the B-Theory.
blank-timeline-template_83319.png
Why do you claim that the former needs to flow in order for two points on the model to be differentiable, but the latter does not?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, pretty much the same thing, no? If all events exist "at once" then you can't in the same breath say that they exist at different times.
In exactly the same way, for a person in 2017, it is true to say that 2025 exists (on the B-Theory). That does not imply that 2025 is the same period of time as 2017.
The fact that two things exist together does not imply they are the same thing."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
Why do you claim that the former needs to flow in order for two points on the model to be differentiable, but the latter does not?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBecause in the A Theory of time there are actually different times, in B Theory there are not "different" times since time is static. There is only one time, not plural times."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostOnce again, on the B-Theory there are different moments of time within the overall dimension of time. I don't know why you continue to insist upon knocking down Straw Men instead of addressing the things which I've actually said.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThis makes no sense, New York and Chicago are physically in different places. If time is static there are no real differences in the big picture. We just use artificial designations. My past, present and future DO exist simultaneously in this universe. And if there is no genuine flow of time then how does one observe time, how do you demonstrate that it exists?Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostIf a person is standing at the North Pole, does the South Pole exist for the person at that location? Does that imply that the South Pole is the same location as the North Pole?
In exactly the same way, for a person in 2017, it is true to say that 2025 exists (on the B-Theory). That does not imply that 2025 is the same period of time as 2017.
The fact that two things exist together does not imply they are the same thing.
I understand what you are saying, but unlike space which all exists "at once", time really ceases to have any meaning if it all exists "at once," if all events within time exist "at once."
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