Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body
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Originally posted by JimL View Postseer, you yourself have argued that you believe the soul or rational mind to be an emergent property of matter, which is the same as to say that you believe the rational mind to be a creation of the non-rational forces of nature. You come to this conclusion, obviously, because you are aware that the nervous system evolved over time until after a very long process developed into a very complex organ we call the brain, the functions of which we call the mind.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, I did not believe that the rational mind is a creation of the non-rational forces of nature. I believe that rational mind is the creation of a Rational Mind (God). Whether God used a guided evolutionary process or not is immaterial. It still would not be nature doing this on her own... How many millions years Jim do you think it would take for nature to create a working calculator? Or even a simple abacus? To ask the question proves the absurdity. Yet you think nature could and did create something infinitely more complex and rational, the human mind.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, again, you're suggesting that the rational mind is material, an emergent property of matter, that this property of matter emerged as a result of millions of years of evolution. The only difference between you and the materialist is that, for no good reason, other than to support your religious agenda, you are adding an immaterial mind to the equation as an external designer of that material process. If your theory differs from that which I laid out then please explain what exactly you mean by defining the mind as an emergent property.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, that is not what I said. If the mind is an emergent property of the brain then the question is why, how?
How would nature (which is material) created something that is immaterial (the mind)? How/why would something that is non-rational, non-self aware create something that is rational and self aware? Tacking on the words "millions of years" to the problem does not answer these questions.
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, that is not what I said. If the mind is an emergent property of the brain then the question is why, how? How would nature (which is material) created something that is immaterial (the mind)?
How/why would something that is non-rational, non-self aware create something that is rational and self aware? Tacking on the words "millions of years" to the problem does not answer these questions.
BTW - Happy Thanksgiving bro!
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, the simple answer is that it doesn't, the mind is the brain, it is not some immaterial entity interacting with the material brain. We materialists would define the mind as the function of the brain, in other words we would say that the mind is what the brain does. It's a way of distinguishing the material object itself from what the material object does.
Why does a non-rational flower lean in the direction of the sun?
Great day, thanks. Hope your's was as well.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course the mind is immaterial, as Sparko has pointed out - with questions which you did not answer.
Because it was created by a Rational mind?
I ate way too much!
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course the mind is immaterial, as Sparko has pointed out - with questions which you did not answer.Because it was created by a Rational mind?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhy should the brain be the only complex physical object in the universe to have an interface with another realm of being?
I suggest, that as evolution occurred in this physical reality, it found that by constructing certain physical constructs (namely certain types of neurons and connected in a certain way) it could amplify the quantum connection and gain useful evolutionary advantages by tapping into the mental universe and imbuing the physical forms that were evolving with increasing levels of mental function. As a result, our brains serve as an interface where the physical signals in this universe can generate mental realities in the world of the mind, and they in turn can send back physical signals which our bodies act on. That interface, can, of course, be impaired or destroyed.
The mind and consciousness can be reduced to the neurological function of the brain and nervous system."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe way I like to hypothesize it is that there is another reality that is mental in nature that interacts with this reality that is physical in nature, at the quantum level. The quantum many-worlds theory is one of several that are currently hypothesized to explain quantum entanglement.
I suggest, that as evolution occurred in this physical reality, it found that by constructing certain physical constructs (namely certain types of neurons and connected in a certain way) it could amplify the quantum connection and gain useful evolutionary advantages by tapping into the mental universe and imbuing the physical forms that were evolving with increasing levels of mental function. As a result, our brains serve as an interface where the physical signals in this universe can generate mental realities in the world of the mind, and they in turn can send back physical signals which our bodies act on. That interface, can, of course, be impaired or destroyed.
I disagree. There's no science that would demonstrate that. And philosophically it's rather difficult to see how that could be the case.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, that's just silly talk. Most of us realize at an early age that there is really no such thing as ghosts. And even if there were, you'd end up trying to make sense of the same problem your dealing with now, i.e. how does the ghost do it, how does its mind work, does the immaterial ghost have an immaterial mind, does it's immaterial thoughts flutter about in space as things in themselves? Sparko can claim anything, but unless he has evidence to back up his claim of the existence of an immaterial realm and immaterially existing Info and thoughts, then the claim has little relevance.
Wrong. That is your claim when it comes to rational minds, i.e. that they are rational because they came from that which is rational, but the flower is not rational.
Don't we always, it can't be helped, and Christmas just around the corner!Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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