Relationship between Philosophy and Theology

[shunyadragon]

Shuny, that is your opinion on Ethical Egoism, but Social Contract Theory or Deontological ethics would not fail, even by your standard. And again, I'm not arguing that the a society or culture don't determine their ethics, I'm arguing that there is no empirical or scientific evidence that humankind has a teleology. Or that there is empirical or scientific that Utilitarian ethics is more correct than it's competition. You have not once told us what this teleology actually is and why.

To add . . . Seer you asked for objective evidence and I have provided the science to back this up, and that is what the foundation of Utilitarian Teleology is based. Than you add why?, different goal posts. Science nor the objective evidence cannot answer the question why. It can only answer the question how things happen based on the objective verifiable evidence.

[shunyadragon]

Shuny, your links say nothing about Utilitarian Teleology, and there is no empirical or scientific evidence that humankind has a teleology. You have not offered ONE example of science supporting a Teleology for humankind, nor have you offered empirical evidence for Utilitarian theory. Please quote from your links where they support your OPINION.

Garbage in.... Garbage out

nonetheless . . .




The scientific view of the origins of ethics and morality is indeed a Utilitarian Teleology.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology

Contemporary philosophers and scientists are still actively discussing whether teleological talk is useful or accurate in doing modern philosophy and science. For instance, in 2012, Thomas Nagel proposed a neo-Darwinian account of evolution that incorporates impersonal, natural teleological laws to explain the existence of life, consciousness, rationality, and objective value.

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[seer]

To add . . . Seer you asked for objective evidence and I have provided the science to back this up, and that is what the foundation of Utilitarian Teleology is based. Than you add why?, different goal posts. Science nor the objective evidence cannot answer the question why. It can only answer the question how things happen based on the objective verifiable evidence.

That is false Shuny you have offered no scientific evidence that sides with Utilitarian ethics nor have you offered scientific evidence for a teleology for humankind. Your links did not touch on these two questions at all. If you think otherwise please quote where they did. I will be waiting.

[shunyadragon]

That is false Shuny you have offered no scientific evidence that sides with Utilitarian ethics nor have you offered scientific evidence for a teleology for humankind. Your links did not touch on these two questions at all. If you think otherwise please quote where they did. I will be waiting.

It is again obvious that you reject science with a 'hand wave' with a warped Theistic agenda, and you reject the objective verifiable evidence.

[seer]

Garbage in.... Garbage out

nonetheless . . .

Shuny your link has six or seven different ethical theories!!! Where does it say that SCIENCE supports Utilitarianism over the others? It doesn't! You just keep digging your hole deeper!

The scientific view of the origins of ethics and morality is indeed a Utilitarian Teleology.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology

Contemporary philosophers and scientists are still actively discussing whether teleological talk is useful or accurate in doing modern philosophy and science. For instance, in 2012, Thomas Nagel proposed a neo-Darwinian account of evolution that incorporates impersonal, natural teleological laws to explain the existence of life, consciousness, rationality, and objective value.

© Copyright Original Source

So you own link questions whether it is even useful to even speak of teleology, and from you link:

Teleology is the philosophical attempt to describe things in terms of their apparent purpose, directive principle, or goal.

So I will ask again Shuny, what is the purpose or goal for humankind?

[seer]

It is again obvious that you reject science with a 'hand wave' with a warped Theistic agenda, and you reject the objective verifiable evidence.

Stop lying about me Shuny.

[shunyadragon]

So I will ask again Shuny, what is the purpose or goal for humankind?

I answered this many times seer. From the scientific Utilitarian Teleology perspective it is the survival of the species through the process of evolution.

[seer]

I answered this many times seer. From the scientific Utilitarian Teleology perspective it is the survival of the species through the process of evolution.

But there is no goal in nature for the survival of humanity, any more than there was for dinosaurs. Did dinosaurs have a teleology? And again, your own link had a number of different ethical theories, where does science support Utilitarianism as opposed to one of the other theories? Where does "science" make that choice - apart from your assertion?

[Tassman]

But there is no goal in nature for the survival of humanity, any more than there was for dinosaurs. Did dinosaurs have a teleology? And again, your own link had a number of different ethical theories, where does science support Utilitarianism as opposed to one of the other theories? Where does "science" make that choice - apart from your assertion?

ALL

[shunyadragon]

But there is no goal in nature for the survival of humanity, any more than there was for dinosaurs. Did dinosaurs have a teleology? And again, your own link had a number of different ethical theories, where does science support Utilitarianism as opposed to one of the other theories? Where does "science" make that choice - apart from your assertion?

This confirm your rejection of science and self-inflicted ignorance concerning the science of evolution. There is not a rational scientific answer you would accept, because of your warped Theist agenda.

[JimL]

So I will ask again Shuny, what is the purpose or goal for humankind?[/B]

To survive, which is why we created God in our image and the notion of eternal life as a reward in exchange for our belief and our obedience. I mean really seer, that should be obvious, your purpose and goal is to survive, to live eternally, and to do so in eternal and heavenly bliss.

[seer]

ALL

Well that is not actually true is it. Obviously many extinct creatures were not predisposed to survive, because well - they didn't.

[seer]

To survive, which is why we created God in our image and the notion of eternal life as a reward in exchange for our belief and our obedience. I mean really seer, that should be obvious, your purpose and goal is to survive, to live eternally, and to do so in eternal and heavenly bliss.

Actually Jim no, was it the goal for dinosaurs to survive? No, that goal was to go extinct.

[seer]

This confirm your rejection of science and self-inflicted ignorance concerning the science of evolution. There is not a rational scientific answer you would accept, because of your warped Theist agenda.

Again Shuny that is not an answer. Where does science support Utilitarianism as opposed to one of the other theories that were in YOUR link? Where in fact does science even claim that there is a teleology for humankind? Any more than a teleology for dinosaurs?

[shunyadragon]

Well that is not actually true is it. Obviously many extinct creatures were not predisposed to survive, because well - they didn't.

There is nothing in the Utilitarian science of evolution that presupposes the survival of species. The only thing that is predisposed is that the Laws of Nature are objectively uniform and consistent throughout our universe at least. The objective verifiable evidence and the obvious witness of the history of life the goal and purpose is the evolution is the survival of life through adaptation to changing environments. Species evolve and change to different species, and most species go extinct and are replaced by other species, and life survives, at least until our sun cooks everything to crisp, and explodes.