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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo, it was because you just did not want to agree with me.
Stop parroting and answer the question - what is the Teleology for humankind. Don't you know?
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIn the beliefs of Theistic religions it is Theistic Teleology. In the beliefs of non-Theist philosophies it is Utilitarian Teleology.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostShuny, why do you keep avoiding the question? Just tell us what the teleology for mankind is - or don't you know?
In Theistic Teleology - The doctrine of design and purpose in the material world.
In Unitatarian Teleology -
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIn Unitatarian Teleology -Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOK, so which one of these do you hold to? Greatest happiness/pleasure of the greatest number?
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI personally do not believe (hold to?) Utilitarian Teleology. In the other thread I argued for the possibility that Utilitarian Teleology has the ability to to provide a non-Theist explanation for the natural origins of morals and ethics, and that indeed is an option. The reference is general and not comprehensive nor explains in detail. The best explanation of Utilitarian Teleology is that morals and ethics evolved to meet the needs of the survival of the species,Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, and like I said these are invented theories that can not be justified or confirmed empirically or scientifically. Nature has no teleology for humankind, though we can make up our own.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostAgain . . . if you take this route, it is equally possible that all Teleologies are made up to satisfy particular philosophical or Theological agendas, which is not a good argument. The descriptive scientific view of the evolution of morals and ethics is based on objectively verifiable evidence.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostShuny you keep bringing up science! Where does science say that there is a teleology (end or goal) for humankind? Where is the actual evidence that we have a teleology? I have asked you a number of times yet you refuse to present said evidence or tell us what this teleology is. If you have no idea what the human teleology is then how can you possibly know if it exists?
Again, again and again . . . Utilitarian Teleology in terms of the ecientific view is indeed supported by the objective verifiable evidence, and Theistic Teleology is not.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou reject science, therefore any response is hopeless.
Again, again and again . . . Utilitarian Teleology in terms of the scientific view is indeed supported by the objective verifiable evidence, and Theistic Teleology is not.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI'm not rejecting anything Shuny, you are using that as a ruse to not answer the question. What is the scientific evidence that there is a teleology for humankind, what is that teleology? What is objective verifiable evidence that Utilitarianism is more correct than Ethical Egoism or Social Contract Theory or Deontological ethics? Where does science support one over the other? You can't just keep asserting that science supports Utilitarianism or a teleology for human kind without any real evidence. I have no problem if a person has a personal opinion or preference on this, but to try and bring science in to support your position is dishonest without showing the actual evidence.
Seer, the are a number of journals and societies that publish research on the evolution of human and animal behavior. There are literally thousands of articles published on this research. I doubt that citing one or two nor all of them would convince you of anything based on the objective evidence.
See: https://www.hbes.com/ The Human Behavior and Evolution Society for just one journal that constantly publishes this research.
The following site provides an extensive list, literally hundreds of research articles, on the evolution of morals and ethics:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...KUDccQgQMIGDAA
Again, since you reject the science of evolution you will reject the thousands of research projects and scholarly articles from major universities of the world in recent history.
Actually I am not arguing for any one philosophy, because it is science and not philosophy that relies on the objective verifiable evidence to support a Utilitarian Teleology. Ethical Egoism fails, because the vast amount of research and the objective evidence has demonstrated that the group society and culture determines the morals and ethics, and not the choices of the individual.Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-08-2017, 08:57 AM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Actually I am not arguing for any one philosophy, because it is science and not philosophy that relies on the objective verifiable evidence to support a Utilitarian Teleology. Ethical Egoism fails, because the vast amount of research and the objective evidence has demonstrated that the group society and culture determines the morals and ethics, and not the choices of the individual.Last edited by seer; 03-08-2017, 09:32 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostShuny, that is your opinion on Ethical Egoism, but Social Contract Theory or Deontological ethics would not fail, even by your standard. And again, I'm not arguing that the a society or culture don't determine their ethics, I'm arguing that there is no empirical or scientific evidence that humankind has a teleology. Or that there is empirical or scientific that Utilitarian ethics is more correct than it's competition. You have not once told us what this teleology actually is and why.
It is increasingly apparent as it always has been that you reject evolution despite the overwhelming academic research and literature supporting it.
The science of the evolution has objective evidence for the evolution of morals and ethics.
Again . . .
Seer, the are a number of journals and societies that publish research on the evolution of human and animal behavior. There are literally thousands of articles published on this research. I doubt that citing one or two nor all of them would convince you of anything based on the objective evidence.
See: https://www.hbes.com/ The Human Behavior and Evolution Society for just one journal that constantly publishes this research.
The following site provides an extensive list, literally hundreds of research articles, on the evolution of morals and ethics:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...KUDccQgQMIGDAA
Again, since you reject the science of evolution you will reject the thousands of research projects and scholarly articles from major universities of the world in recent history.
Actually I am not arguing for any one philosophy, because it is science and not philosophy that relies on the objective verifiable evidence to support a Utilitarian Teleology. Ethical Egoism fails, because the vast amount of research and the objective evidence has demonstrated that the group society and culture determines the morals and ethics, and not the choices of the individual.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThere is no objective verifiable evidence for the Theistic Teleology, but there is for the Utilitarian Teleology as cited. The question why? is a philosophical/theological question. Scientific evidence and research overwhelmingly supports the natural non-theist origins of human morals and ethics.
It is increasingly apparent as it always has been that you reject evolution despite the overwhelming academic research and literature supporting it.
The science of the evolution has objective evidence for the evolution of morals and ethics.
Again . . .
Seer, the are a number of journals and societies that publish research on the evolution of human and animal behavior. There are literally thousands of articles published on this research. I doubt that citing one or two nor all of them would convince you of anything based on the objective evidence.
See: https://www.hbes.com/ The Human Behavior and Evolution Society for just one journal that constantly publishes this research.
The following site provides an extensive list, literally hundreds of research articles, on the evolution of morals and ethics:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...KUDccQgQMIGDAA
Again, since you reject the science of evolution you will reject the thousands of research projects and scholarly articles from major universities of the world in recent history.
Actually I am not arguing for any one philosophy, because it is science and not philosophy that relies on the objective verifiable evidence to support a Utilitarian Teleology. Ethical Egoism fails, because the vast amount of research and the objective evidence has demonstrated that the group society and culture determines the morals and ethics, and not the choices of the individual.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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