Originally posted by shunyadragon
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Non-theistic Moral Realism
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course it does, Utilitarian teleology by definition states that the goal of man is general happiness for the greatest number. I linked that very definition. That is clearly anthropomorphic, since nothing in nature plans that. That is a man made theory and nothing else. Again you need to understand what you are talking about, because presently you don't: https://www.utilitarianism.com/utilitarianism.html
I am very familiar with this reference.
. . . and Moore;
A selective view of one philosophical view of utilitarian teleology does not define it. your bad.
READ fully your own reference!Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-02-2017, 03:36 PM.
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Shuny, NMN says that objective duties and values exist. But they don't exist, and you have not been able to demonstrate that they do. Why for instance do I have a DUTY to help you? Where does this objective duty come from? What obligates me to this duty?
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou are selectively citing your source to justify your selective worldview. Not all those that propose utilitarian teleology propose general happiness as a goal. Bentham and Mill describes 'general happiness' as a motivation of human morals and ethics. Henry Sidgwick rejected Bentham and Mill's motivation for utilitarian teleology. The concept has a longer history and more perspectives than you simplistically describe.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou have the DUTY to help me for the cooperation necessary for the survival of the community, of course, in reality you have a will and may refuse to help me, but most people help each other most of the time, thereore the community and society survive.Last edited by seer; 03-02-2017, 04:39 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostShuny are you dense, you have just proven my point. Even those who agree with Utilitarian theory can not agree on what it is, what constitutes it. That it because it is a man made theory and completely subjective!
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut what if taking your stuff makes me more secure, richer and better able to survive and pass on my genes? What is enslaving the minority of a population helps the majority survive better?Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-02-2017, 04:31 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNo points are proven nor not proven, except your dishonest selective use of references to justify your worldview.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt was in the case of the Old Testament Hebrews. Foreign slaves were bought and sold by Hebrews as property. This by the way this is chattel slavery. Is that good?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostShuny, Utilitarian theory is man made, it is not objective, and is subjective. There is no teleology or plan for mankind in nature. You just once again refuse to admit that you are wrong.
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Originally posted by seer View PostYopu did not answer the questions: What if taking your stuff makes me more secure, richer and better able to survive and pass on my genes? What is enslaving the minority of a population helps the majority survive better? Why is that wrong? Certainly not according to nature - then according to what?
Why are these things wrong in your worldview.Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-02-2017, 05:03 PM.
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat makes no sense Shuny, why is it good for the human species to survive? Was it an objective verifiable fact that it was good for the dinosaurs to survive? Says who?Did nature have a plan or purpose for us? Did nature have a teleology for humankind? Did it have a teleology for dinosaurs.
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Originally posted by seer View PostShuny are you dense, you have just proven my point. Even those who agree with Utilitarian theory can not agree on what it is, what constitutes it. That it because it is a man made theory and completely subjective!
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAll morality is "man-made" and "subjective", including that based upon the bible. This is why the accepted social values of Christian societies 2,000 years ago or 1,000 years ago or 100 years ago are significantly different...despite being based upon the supposedly objective moral standards of the bible. And they're different because Christians of the different eras subjectively interpret scripture according to the developing social mores of their own day.
From the scientific perspective basis of "morals and ethics" are evolved naturally and are social and cultural attributes that evolved and NOT "man made." They do indeed have objective and subjective attributes that may be used to describe the nature of tis evolved morality, and continually evolving morality of humanity.
Describing morality as "man made" is an odd anthropomorphic description of a natural evolving nature of not only humans but also all of the higher mammals that have more primative moral systems that describe their evolved social relationships.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostHere I will disagree big time from the scientific and secular perspective of NMN. Morality as defined is neither subjective nor nebulously objective as described by many Theists. It is not "man made."
From the scientific perspective basis of "morals and ethics" are evolved naturally and are social and cultural attributes that evolved and NOT "man made." They do indeed have objective and subjective attributes that may be used to describe the nature of tis evolved morality, and continually evolving morality of humanity.
Describing morality as "man made" is an odd anthropomorphic description of a natural evolving nature of not only humans but also all of the higher mammals that have more primative moral systems that describe their evolved social relationships.
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