BTW, I am sorry you guys didn't like the OP. I will try to do better next time. I also am not really sure, is this a majoritarily Christian website? I read that somewhere. If so, it might be rude of me to post atheist thoughts and claims. I assumed this was a open debate forum, though I realize some sections are restricted to obviously avoid unnecessary conflict (this remembers me much of sport's teams rivalry).
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My brief (and polemical) thought about Christianity...
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostI should have also mentioned this isn't even ''Apologetics 301'', but ''General Theistics 101''. So, one more thing you didn't get right...Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostBTW, I am sorry you guys didn't like the OP. I will try to do better next time. I also am not really sure, is this a majoritarily Christian website? I read that somewhere. If so, it might be rude of me to post atheist thoughts and claims. I assumed this was a open debate forum, though I realize some sections are restricted to obviously avoid unnecessary conflict (this remembers me much of sport's teams rivalry).Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostI don't like using analogies for the Trinity because they all seem to eventually fall apart. Some are horrible like water, steam and ice.
I thought Morris's explanation was a place to start.
Seeker said: "Or it is 1, or it is 3. 1 and 3 at the same time cannot be true."
We don't know what seeker really means by his statement. Some people think the Trinity is three Gods; it doesn't. Some think "three persons" means three people; it doesn't.
Seeker needs to clarity what he thinks the concept of the Trinity is.Last edited by Seeker; 09-03-2019, 11:21 PM.
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostAs for the concept of the Trinity, I cannot say I have a clear idea of it, because it is like the concept of a square circle. I cannot have an idea of what a square circle is the same way I cannot have an ideia of what are three persons in only one substance.
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostAs for the concept of the Trinity, I cannot say I have a clear idea of it, because it is like the concept of a square circle. I cannot have an idea of what a square circle is the same way I cannot have an ideia of what are three persons in only one substance.
Not that that has anything at all to do with the Trinity part of the analogy.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI agree that the Trinity is something beyond human understanding. I very much disagree that it is "like the concept of a square circle" however, i.e that it is logically contradictory. I have yet to see one single argument that has been able to demonstrate a logical contradiction in the orthodox conception of the Trinity.
I believe in the Trinity. I understand and accept the standard explanation that it is, in simplistic terms, one "what" and three "whos." It is not a logical contradiction, because the categories are different.
But it is still outside and apart from anything in normal experience. The only time we experience multiple "persons" in a single "being" is in certain psychotic individuals.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostI'm sympathetic to the objection.
I believe in the Trinity. I understand and accept the standard explanation that it is, in simplistic terms, one "what" and three "whos." It is not a logical contradiction, because the categories are different.
But it is still outside and apart from anything in normal experience. The only time we experience multiple "persons" in a single "being" is in certain psychotic individuals.
I personally like the analogy of Marvel's The Living Tribunal (being a Norrin Radd fan, you obviously know something about that), but ultimately all analogies fail for one reason or another.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWilliam Lane Craig used to use the analogy of Cerberus, the three-headed hellhound of Greek mythology to help get the idea across of 3 persons in one being which I found helpful, but has since put it to the side,
I personally like the analogy of Marvel's The Living Tribunal (being a Norrin Radd fan, you obviously know something about that), but ultimately all analogies fail for one reason or another.
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I'm not certain. I never watched Ben 10. The Living Tribunal is an extremely powerful cosmic being in the Marvel universe (likely the most powerful outside of The One Above All) whose duty it is to safe guard the universe and keep things in order. I think. He doesn't really show up very often in the comics (at least, not when I was reading them). He has three faces representing different aspects of judgement: equity, just vengeance, and necessity, and they all must agree before the Tribunal passes judgement on someone or something. Again, analogies to the Trinity always break down, but yeah.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI'm not certain. I never watched Ben 10. The Living Tribunal is an extremely powerful cosmic being in the Marvel universe (likely the most powerful outside of The One Above All) whose duty it is to safe guard the universe and keep things in order. I think. He doesn't really show up very often in the comics (at least, not when I was reading them). He has three faces representing different aspects of judgement: equity, just vengeance, and necessity, and they all must agree before the Tribunal passes judgement on someone or something. Again, analogies to the Trinity always break down, but yeah.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI agree that the Trinity is something beyond human understanding. I very much disagree that it is "like the concept of a square circle" however, i.e that it is logically contradictory. I have yet to see one single argument that has been able to demonstrate a logical contradiction in the orthodox conception of the Trinity.
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One God, three persons not three gods or one person and three persons
So, one What and three whos. No reason a being outside of our space time continuum should have the same psychology as a human. There's a buch of terrible analogies though.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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