My brief (and polemical) thought about Christianity...

[Seeker]

BTW, I am sorry you guys didn't like the OP. I will try to do better next time. I also am not really sure, is this a majoritarily Christian website? I read that somewhere. If so, it might be rude of me to post atheist thoughts and claims. I assumed this was a open debate forum, though I realize some sections are restricted to obviously avoid unnecessary conflict (this remembers me much of sport's teams rivalry).

[One Bad Pig]

I should have also mentioned this isn't even ''Apologetics 301'', but ''General Theistics 101''. So, one more thing you didn't get right...

To be fair, it really should be in Apologetics; General Theistics is meant to be for irenic, not polemical discussion.

[One Bad Pig]

BTW, I am sorry you guys didn't like the OP. I will try to do better next time. I also am not really sure, is this a majoritarily Christian website? I read that somewhere. If so, it might be rude of me to post atheist thoughts and claims. I assumed this was a open debate forum, though I realize some sections are restricted to obviously avoid unnecessary conflict (this remembers me much of sport's teams rivalry).

Yes, it's a Christian-run website. No, it's not rude to post atheist thoughts and claims. Yes, it's an open debate forum.

[Seeker]

Yes, it's a Christian-run website. No, it's not rude to post atheist thoughts and claims. Yes, it's an open debate forum.

[Christianbookworm]

We love you anyways. And by that, we will pray for your eyes to be opened! Or at least make an informed decision regarding the Gospel.

[Seeker]

I don't like using analogies for the Trinity because they all seem to eventually fall apart. Some are horrible like water, steam and ice.

I thought Morris's explanation was a place to start.

Seeker said: "Or it is 1, or it is 3. 1 and 3 at the same time cannot be true."

We don't know what seeker really means by his statement. Some people think the Trinity is three Gods; it doesn't. Some think "three persons" means three people; it doesn't.

Seeker needs to clarity what he thinks the concept of the Trinity is.

As for the concept of the Trinity, I cannot say I have a clear idea of it, because it is like the concept of a square circle. I cannot have an idea of what a square circle is the same way I cannot have an ideia of what are three persons in only one substance.

[JonathanL]

As for the concept of the Trinity, I cannot say I have a clear idea of it, because it is like the concept of a square circle. I cannot have an idea of what a square circle is the same way I cannot have an ideia of what are three persons in only one substance.

I agree that the Trinity is something beyond human understanding. I very much disagree that it is "like the concept of a square circle" however, i.e that it is logically contradictory. I have yet to see one single argument that has been able to demonstrate a logical contradiction in the orthodox conception of the Trinity.

[NorrinRadd]

As for the concept of the Trinity, I cannot say I have a clear idea of it, because it is like the concept of a square circle. I cannot have an idea of what a square circle is the same way I cannot have an ideia of what are three persons in only one substance.

How about a circle as a superposition of an infinite number of squares each rotated relative to the next by an infinitesimally small amount about a common center?

Not that that has anything at all to do with the Trinity part of the analogy.

[NorrinRadd]

I agree that the Trinity is something beyond human understanding. I very much disagree that it is "like the concept of a square circle" however, i.e that it is logically contradictory. I have yet to see one single argument that has been able to demonstrate a logical contradiction in the orthodox conception of the Trinity.

I'm sympathetic to the objection.

I believe in the Trinity. I understand and accept the standard explanation that it is, in simplistic terms, one "what" and three "whos." It is not a logical contradiction, because the categories are different.

But it is still outside and apart from anything in normal experience. The only time we experience multiple "persons" in a single "being" is in certain psychotic individuals.

[Adrift]

I'm sympathetic to the objection.

I believe in the Trinity. I understand and accept the standard explanation that it is, in simplistic terms, one "what" and three "whos." It is not a logical contradiction, because the categories are different.

But it is still outside and apart from anything in normal experience. The only time we experience multiple "persons" in a single "being" is in certain psychotic individuals.

William Lane Craig used to use the analogy of Cerberus, the three-headed hellhound of Greek mythology to help get the idea across of 3 persons in one being which I found helpful, but has since put it to the side,



I personally like the analogy of Marvel's The Living Tribunal (being a Norrin Radd fan, you obviously know something about that), but ultimately all analogies fail for one reason or another.

[Cerebrum123]

William Lane Craig used to use the analogy of Cerberus, the three-headed hellhound of Greek mythology to help get the idea across of 3 persons in one being which I found helpful, but has since put it to the side,



I personally like the analogy of Marvel's The Living Tribunal (being a Norrin Radd fan, you obviously know something about that), but ultimately all analogies fail for one reason or another.

Is the Living Tribunal kind of like Alien X in the Ben 10 Alien Force series? I remember the Living Tribunal being mentioned in the Secret Wars comics, but they didn't explain much about it.

[Adrift]

Is the Living Tribunal kind of like Alien X in the Ben 10 Alien Force series? I remember the Living Tribunal being mentioned in the Secret Wars comics, but they didn't explain much about it.

I'm not certain. I never watched Ben 10. The Living Tribunal is an extremely powerful cosmic being in the Marvel universe (likely the most powerful outside of The One Above All) whose duty it is to safe guard the universe and keep things in order. I think. He doesn't really show up very often in the comics (at least, not when I was reading them). He has three faces representing different aspects of judgement: equity, just vengeance, and necessity, and they all must agree before the Tribunal passes judgement on someone or something. Again, analogies to the Trinity always break down, but yeah.

[Cerebrum123]

I'm not certain. I never watched Ben 10. The Living Tribunal is an extremely powerful cosmic being in the Marvel universe (likely the most powerful outside of The One Above All) whose duty it is to safe guard the universe and keep things in order. I think. He doesn't really show up very often in the comics (at least, not when I was reading them). He has three faces representing different aspects of judgement: equity, just vengeance, and necessity, and they all must agree before the Tribunal passes judgement on someone or something. Again, analogies to the Trinity always break down, but yeah.

Kind of similar, the Alien X has three internal faces that represent various aspects(reason, aggression, compassion IIRC), and they have to agree to do anything. There are however more than one Alien X. It was one of the more interesting parallels I have seen, even though it does break down pretty quick as an analogy. I think it was either inspired by Living Tribunal, or very loosely by the Trinity.

[Seeker]

I agree that the Trinity is something beyond human understanding. I very much disagree that it is "like the concept of a square circle" however, i.e that it is logically contradictory. I have yet to see one single argument that has been able to demonstrate a logical contradiction in the orthodox conception of the Trinity.

It is logically contradictory because it is has, as we would say, mutually excluding attributes. That prevents us from having a clear idea of what it is.

[Christianbookworm]

One God, three persons not three gods or one person and three persons
So, one What and three whos. No reason a being outside of our space time continuum should have the same psychology as a human. There's a buch of terrible analogies though.