Christ in the Cretaceous

[robrecht]

It's not a matter of worrying about it, I was just juxtaposing what you said in the discussion (and also because you're basically parroting what the pope recently said). Maybe it's more complex than assuming hypothetical aliens can be saved and then ending the discussion there.

I do now recall that the pope said something about aliens but I don't think I ever heard any of the specifics. If we are ever faced with this particular issue, I'm sure there will be a variety of theological approaches proposed, some better than others.

[Cow Poke]

I do now recall that the pope said something about aliens but I don't think I ever heard any of the specifics. If we are ever faced with this particular issue, I'm sure there will be a variety of theological approaches proposed, some better than others.

But, until then..... my heart will go on singing, until then, with Joy I'll carry on...

[Littlejoe]

Yeah I suppose it **could**, but man how much do I have to suspend disbelief to think that the entirety of the cosmos and all sentient life it potentially encompasses, was redeemed when a Jewish carpenter & itinerant preacher was crucified for blasphemy 2,000 years ago. That just doesn't satisfy I suppose...at best it just stretches out infinitely the problem of the "Holy Heathen" (i.e. those who lived a good moral life but never received the Gospel message).

And furthermore, those who do believe will all life together on this Earth when Heaven comes down to form a New Jerusalem! Might get a little crowded (I would hope) !

Have you ever read C.S. Lewis Space Trilogy? The first book "Out of the Silent Planet" explores the difference between a "fallen world" (Earth) and one that did not (Mars) in purely fictional form of course. Not to spoil it in case you or others reading want to read it...Earth is the "Silent Planet" ...and for a reason. In fact, I need to dig my old copies out and reread them...

[mossrose]

But, until then..... my heart will go on singing, until then, with Joy I'll carry on...

Until the day my eyes behold that city. Until the day God calls me home.

[Cow Poke]

Until the day my eyes behold that city. Until the day God calls me home.

Will the ushers come forward with the offering plates, please.

[rogue06]

I do now recall that the pope said something about aliens but I don't think I ever heard any of the specifics. If we are ever faced with this particular issue, I'm sure there will be a variety of theological approaches proposed, some better than others.

IIRC there was a conference at the Vatican about the religious implication of life on other planets held when John Paul II was pope.

[rogue06]

Will the ushers come forward with the offering plates, please.

Oh! Oh! I got some "plates" from the Cretaceous

smiley dodge tomato.gif

[Cow Poke]

IIRC there was a conference at the Vatican about the religious implication of life on other planets held when John Paul II was pope.

I don't think it was so much a "conference" as it was comments in an interview...



But, then, I don't remember anything along these lines related to JPII.

[whag]

I do now recall that the pope said something about aliens but I don't think I ever heard any of the specifics. If we are ever faced with this particular issue, I'm sure there will be a variety of theological approaches proposed, some better than others.

Can you speculate on what you think would be the better theological approaches to human-equivalent species being discovered? It doesn't seem probable that such species could remain perfect during the entire duration of existence being composed of the same raw material and living in the same environment as homo sapiens. The Bible says that sin was expressed in the first generation on earth, so how likely is it that human analogues would fare any better faced with the perfection test for eon upon eon?

[rogue06]

I don't think it was so much a "conference" as it was comments in an interview...



But, then, I don't remember anything along these lines related to JPII.

Earlier. Back in 2009 (but also when Francis was pope):

Source: VATICAN HOLDS CONFERENCE ON EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE

Source

© Copyright Original Source

[Cow Poke]

Earlier. Back in 2009 (but also when Francis was pope):

Source: VATICAN HOLDS CONFERENCE ON EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE

Source

© Copyright Original Source

OK, and this....

Source: Catholic.net

Alien Life Out There

© Copyright Original Source

[robrecht]

Can you speculate on what you think would be the better theological approaches to human-equivalent species being discovered? It doesn't seem probable that such species could remain perfect during the entire duration of existence being composed of the same raw material and living in the same environment as homo sapiens. The Bible says that sin was expressed in the first generation on earth, so how likely is it that human analogues would fare any better faced with the perfection test for eon upon eon?

I don't interpret the Fall in Genesis 2-4 as historical for the human species on earth so I would not even concern myself with whether or not something similar happened on other planets. Some Christian theologies require a literal interpretation of the Fall in Genesis but none that I follow.

[whag]

I don't interpret the Fall in Genesis 2-4 as historical for the human species on earth so I would not even concern myself with whether or not something similar happened on other planets. Some Christian theologies require a literal interpretation of the Fall in Genesis but none that I follow.

The idea of a more protracted fall that reaches a tipping point necessitating God's incarnation and sacrifice is interesting to me (I'm presuming this is your view). A historical, even quasi-figurative view of Adam as a real figure doesn't make any sense to me. Can you recommend any freely obtainable literature on this?

[robrecht]

The idea of a more protracted fall that reaches a tipping point necessitating God's incarnation and sacrifice is interesting to me (I'm presuming this is your view). A historical, even quasi-figurative view of Adam as a real figure doesn't make any sense to me. Can you recommend any freely obtainable literature on this?

No, that is not my view. I follow the Irenaeus/Franciscan theological tradition that believes the Incarnation was always part of God's plan for humanity and thus was not some kind of Plan B necessitated by a literal or historical fall or tipping point. This is a more continuous evolutionary view of creation and salvation rather than a discontinuous break between creation and redemption. I'm not sure of what freely available literature to recommend, but you could try Googling "primacy of the Incarnation".

[whag]

No, that is not my view. I follow the Irenaeus/Franciscan theological tradition that believes the Incarnation was always part of God's plan for humanity and thus was not some kind of Plan B necessitated by a literal or historical fall or tipping point. This is a more continuous evolutionary view of creation and salvation rather than a discontinuous break between creation and redemption. I'm not sure of what freely available literature to recommend, but you could try Googling "primacy of the Incarnation".

That sounds way more controversial, but seems to be the only explanation that makes sense given the impossibility of perfection.

I googled the phrase, and the only exact match I got was the fifth one down, which seems kind of short and suspect (being an EWTN link).

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showme...=&Pgnu=&recnu=