Another Demon thread

[lilpixieofterror]

??? Do you mean that fundy thinking is what "demons are behind everything" is under? Indeed, Whag, please stop insisting on a false dichotomy. There's a difference between believing that demonic possession is possible, abet rare, and thinking that demons are responsible for all mental issues and evil acts.

Yep, that is what I mean. The classic black/white fundy thinking which one attacks a position that very few hold to in a sad attempt to refute the entire thing.

[whag]

??? Do you mean that fundy thinking is what "demons are behind everything" is under? Indeed, Whag, please stop insisting on a false dichotomy. There's a difference between believing that demonic possession is possible, abet rare, and thinking that demons are responsible for all mental issues and evil acts.

again, I never said that. instead, I'm specifically challenging the belief that demons manifest themselves in the manner described in the OP and by Licona and Reis.

[lilpixieofterror]

because believing one answer (demon possession) is both absurd and unhealthy. my mom in law believes her alcoholic sister is possessed. you can imagine how much help she is having that view.

Sorry whag, your logic isn't very sound and pretty easy to refute. Suppose that demon possession isn't the answer to her sister being an alcoholic, does that therefore logically mean that it isn't the answer elsewhere? No it doesn't anymore then the fact that not everybody with mental health issues is depressed is proof that every last case of depression is false because some cases turn out to be false. That is the black/white fundy mentality speaking there.

why believe in demons is the question. especially manifest ones, such as the ones Licona and Reis describe.

Why debate piles of burning straw? Oh, that's right, it is easier to attack black/white thinking vs sound logic. Demon possession might be the answer or it isn't, if it isn't the answer, it doesn't prove that ALL cases must be false anymore then some cases of depression being false is proof ALL cases of depression are false.

[lilpixieofterror]

again, I never said that. instead, I'm specifically challenging the belief that demons manifest themselves in the manner described in the OP and by Licona and Reis.

How do you know? Where you there? Did you bring in mental health professionals? Did you refute anything they said or are you trying to refute black/white fundy thinking by using black/white fundy thinking? You made your goal here pretty obvious whag, your goal is to insult people who disagree with you. My goal is to point out your sloppy thinking and illogical method in which you go about doing this.

[Christianbookworm]

because believing one answer (demon possession) is both absurd and unhealthy. my mom in law believes her alcoholic sister is possessed. you can imagine how much help she is having that view.

why believe in demons is the question. especially manifest ones, such as the ones Licona and Reis describe.

Circular reasoning much? You haven't shown that it's impossible. And using naturalism to prove naturalism, doesn't work. If there are spirits out there capable of evading detection, then why can't some of them influence a person's brain? You still haven't shown why it's absurd and unhealthy. It makes sense to look for differential diangoses and go for demonic possession after all other possible diagnoses are ruled out. Yes, it would be foolish to immediately jump to the conclusion that any problem is the result of a demon and not a drinking problem. Just go with the hypothetical scenario. If "supernatural beings" exist, why couldn't they have some effect in our lives.

[whag]

How do you know? Where you there? Did you bring in mental health professionals? Did you refute anything they said or are you trying to refute black/white fundy thinking by using black/white fundy thinking? You made your goal here pretty obvious whag, your goal is to insult people who disagree with you. My goal is to point out your sloppy thinking and illogical method in which you go about doing this.

has any mental health professional ever eliminated neurological explanations for demonic ones?

[Christianbookworm]

has any mental health professional ever eliminated neurological explanations for demonic ones?

You wouldn't believe them if they did. Why don't we just agree that we're not going to change the other's mind and stop the argument?

[whag]

Sorry whag, your logic isn't very sound and pretty easy to refute. Suppose that demon possession isn't the answer to her sister being an alcoholic, does that therefore logically mean that it isn't the answer elsewhere?

define "it" and "answer." you're being incredibly vague.

No it doesn't anymore then the fact that not everybody with mental health issues is depressed is proof that every last case of depression is false because some cases turn out to be false. That is the black/white fundy mentality speaking there.

you can't be saying that I'm a Fundy because I reject your view that a demon played a role in her alcoholism. it's not fundamentalist to approach a problem practically.

maybe you can give an example of how my being open to demons being partially to blame for her alcoholism would help.

Why debate piles of burning straw? Oh, that's right, it is easier to attack black/white thinking vs sound logic. Demon possession might be the answer or it isn't, if it isn't the answer, it doesn't prove that ALL cases must be false anymore then some cases of depression being false is proof ALL cases of depression are false.

[whag]

You wouldn't believe them if they did. Why don't we just agree that we're not going to change the other's mind and stop the argument?

it's not about changing your mind. its an exercise in thought to question the rationality of demon belief.

[Christianbookworm]

it's not about changing your mind. its an exercise in thought to question the rationity of demon belief.

Conflict of the worldviews! Why do you consider it irrational to believe in angels or demons? Aside from your presupposition that matter and energy is all there is.

[whag]

Conflict of the worldviews! Why do you consider it irrational to believe in angels or demons? Aside from your presupposition that matter and energy is all there is.

I find belief in a war going on behind the scenes unnecessary and unhelpful, though not necessarily irrational. its irrational when it leads to things like that pastor matter of factly saying Raul Reis performed a kung fu exorcism on two demons.

if we can't agree on that, then, yea, let's end this.

[lilpixieofterror]

has any mental health professional ever eliminated neurological explanations for demonic ones?

I have no idea, never interviewed them all, but your assumption here is little more then an argument from silence.

[lilpixieofterror]

define "it" and "answer." you're being incredibly vague.

Wow, your English comprehension skills really need some work whag, take this sentence:

Sally went to the store. Afterwords, she visited my house.

Are you going to seriously ask me who I mean by 'she' or would most English speakers understand that 'she' is a pronoun for 'Sally'? Now, in my sentence, what is the major topic of the sentence? What would 'it' most likely be referring to? Do I seriously need to explain how this works? Wow...

you can't be saying that I'm a Fundy because I reject your view that a demon played a role in her alcoholism. it's not fundamentalist to approach a problem practically.

No sweety, I call you a fundy because of your black/white mentality towards the issue. I never said one word about if your mother in laws sister is 'demon possessed' or not because I don't know and unlike you, I'm not going to call people a bunch of names for not agreeing with me. I have no idea what your mother in laws reasons are, I don't know the women in question, so I'm not going to make an opinion without more information. I would say I think it is highly unlikely merely due to the fact that not a single alcoholic I've known could be 'demon possessed' and I've known plenty and it is far more likely to be plain old philological/psychological addiction then anything to do with demons, but I can't be 100% sure.

maybe you can give an example of how my being open to demons being partially to blame for her alcoholism would help.

Perhaps you could attack what I said instead of piles of burning straw?

[whag]

Wow, your English comprehension skills really need some work whag, take this sentence:

Sally went to the store. Afterwords, she visited my house.

Are you going to seriously ask me who I mean by 'she' or would most English speakers understand that 'she' is a pronoun for 'Sally'? Now, in my sentence, what is the major topic of the sentence? What would 'it' most likely be referring to? Do I seriously need to explain how this works? Wow...



No sweety, I call you a fundy because of your black/white mentality towards the issue. I never said one word about if your mother in laws sister is 'demon possessed' or not because I don't know and unlike you, I'm not going to call people a bunch of names for not agreeing with me. I have no idea what your mother in laws reasons are, I don't know the women in question, so I'm not going to make an opinion without more information. I would say I think it is highly unlikely merely due to the fact that not a single alcoholic I've known could be 'demon possessed' and I've known plenty and it is far more likely to be plain old philological/psychological addiction then anything to do with demons, but I can't be 100% sure.



Perhaps you could attack what I said instead of piles of burning straw?

we're in complete agreement that demons are never a helpful diagnosis to make. one wonders why you're so adamant about believing they manifest themselves in human beings at all.

[Christianbookworm]

Whag, you are the one that keeps making a huge deal about this. Who cares? If demons do anything, they will be punished and would be kept from doing anything significant.