Christians Don't Sin

[Spartacus]

Does this count?

It's one thing to call someone out for being a heretic; it's another to point out just how unoriginal they are and how long ago the heresy was repudiated.

[37818]

Has anyone told 37818 that he's arguing for a Nestorian Christology?

Are you all really that dense? I believe the Son of God is only one Person. In the incarnation when He became human, He the Son of God remained God and took on a human nature, still being one Person. He was fully human, and inherited the knowledge of good and evil which caused the sinful nature in humans was handed down from Adam through His virgin mother Mary to Him being fully human. Because this knowledge of good and evil was always part of His divine nature (Genesis 3:22) He being fully human and so also remaining fully God would not sin (Mark 10:18; Hebrews 4:15.)

[37818]

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None of the makes any sense whether you believe it or not.

By you not understanding it to be true does not make it not true. And then why should you believe what does not make sense to you? Jesus was both the man and God in the flesh. (see John 14:6-9). That is the claim.

What are you talking about, isn't that what Jesus supposedly said to the young wealthy man, that selling all he had and giving it to the poor was the one thing he needed to do. Apparently you only believe those parts of the bible that suit you.

The record we call the gospel accounts is really all the real history we have upon which genuine Christianity is to be based. Some Christians would disagree. But then most all groups orthodox and heretical use the same 66 books besides other claims. You can understand it or choose not to.

[37818]

This bickering about whether God has a mother is hilarious.

The common belief is the Son of God was incarnate through a human birth of His human mother the virgin Mary. Being always God now became human. It is a widely accepted statement of faith that the "Virgin Mary is the Mother of God." I do not ascribe to that particular statement of faith. What is agreed upon is the one born to the Virgin Mary was both the man and God.

Yes, it takes me back to the era 2,000 years ago (and beyond) when supernatural entities and virgin births were commonplace.

Name one. And give the historical basis. Hmm. . . "The chaste young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." Isaiah 7:14. ". . . And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. . . ." -- Genesis 3:15.

Chrawnus is on the right track. The BVM is referred to in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions as Theotokos, i.e. God bearer, and clearly this is a direct consequence of the doctrines of the Holy Trinity, whereby all three persons of the Trinity are fully and eternally God AND the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union whereby Jesus is fully God and fully man at one and the same time.

Noted.

Jesus was the Creator before His birth (John 1;3, 10, 14). And was Christ the Lord at His birth, meaning He was the Savior (Luke 2:11; Isaiah 43:11). Now the term "adoption" as used by the Apostle Paul has the meaning of being placed as a son. And even the Apostle John understood this, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." -- 1 John 3:2. So the Apostle Paul wrote to the Roman church, ". . . even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body." -- Romans 8:23. And again in another place he wrote, ". . . For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, . . . " -- Philippians 3:20-21.

[Tassman]

Name one. And give the historical basis. Hmm. . . "The chaste young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." Isaiah 7:14. ". . . And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. . . ." -- Genesis 3:15.

[37818]

There have been numerous accounts of miraculous births of various sorts and there’s no credible historical basis for any of them. E.g. in Egypt, virgin mother Isis begot Horus; in Greece Adonis was born of a virgin and was resurrected after being killed by a wild boar – the Phoenicians considered him to be a dying-and-rising god; Perseus and Hercules both had virgin births after being fathered by yet other gods; Mithra was a Persian god who was also virgin born - and so on. There are scores of such myths and all have the miraculous in common despite differing details. It was the sort of thing gods did back then.

Ah . . . You're presenting more claims. The common account the family relationship describes Horus as the son of Isis and Osiris. Do you have any archeological references?

[Christianbookworm]

Ah . . . You're presenting more claims. The common account the family relationship describes Horus as the son of Isis and Osiris. Do you have any archeological references?

And she had to put Osiris back together like a puzzle(Egyptian gods were like lego apparently), but one of the pieces was missing...

[Sparko]

Then we didn't inherit our natures from Adam, we inherited it from God just like Adam did. You are able to sin or not to sin just like Adam was, so whats all this nonsense about a fall and inheritence?

Well since not one person has ever not sinned (except Jesus) I don't think anyone is able to "not sin" in totality. You might be able to not sin in a particular instance, since you have free will, but you will (and have) sinned at some time.

Well of course that is your opinion and your definition of sin, and my definition differs from yours.

No. I am using the actual definition of sin, to "miss the mark" meaning you are not meeting God's expectations. You are just confusing "morals" with "sin".

No I don't need anothers forgiveness. It might be nice, but not needed so long as i forgive myself.

Unless you are some sort of sociopath, that is not true. For example: If you do something to cause your wife harm and she is going to leave you, you can forgive yourself all you want, but that will do nothing to restore your relationship with her. You need her forgiveness.

No I wouldn't. If I am sorry for what I've done then why would I "need" anyones, including Gods, forgiveness?

Because your actions are not isolated. They effect others, including God.

If I see the light is red, and you tell me its green, then I will trust my own eyes thank you.

Beside the point. you are trusting the traffic light to tell you what to do. The same as if someone is telling you there is a cliff ahead. You can either trust him, or not.

Is that what you think of your loved ones, that they deserve eternal damnation? Thats a God that I would define as a psychopath!

We all deserve damnation because we have all sinned against God. Myself included. Why should God embrace those who reject him and rebel against him? What makes you think you can ignore God and reject him and tell him your whole life that you don't need him or want anything to do with him, and then expect him to let you live with him for eternity? Luckily God is merciful and gives everyone a way to escape that separation and show that we want to reconcile with him and receive forgiveness.

And if there were no gift of salvation offered for your obedience would you still give a damn about Jesus? I don't think so, which is why we created Gods with their punishments and rewards in the first place.

If being merciful is good then not being merciful is evil, which means God eternally damning human beings is an evil doing God. Would you do the same if you were God and the creation that you supposedly love didn't believe you existed, or for any reason for that matter.

No. "not being merciful" would mean being just. Getting what we deserve. Yet instead of getting what we deserve, God offers us mercy.

If a governor offers amnesty to a criminal in jail, that is mercy. If he doesn't then the criminal is getting what he deserves and the governor is being just.

I'd say damn God, your an awful pinhead. I didn't reject you, I never even knew you. What kind of father could be such a psychopathic murderer of his own children?

ROFL. and then you would be mad because God sent you to hell? After acting like that? If you don't want to be with God because you think he is a psychopath, well then, God is going to oblige you. You will get what you want.

I'd say that is ridiculous, what kind of needy jerk punishes or rewards people for their beliefs.

You are not punished for not believing. you are punished because you reject God and are a sinner.

No, it has nothing to do with admitting and exposing your sins, since if God existed he already knows your sins, its about believing in God and in the reward you think he offers for that belief. That is what you are doing!

I am accepting his mercy. You are rejecting it. That is your choice. Don't whine about it.

Well, you are telling me what you believe to be true, or at least what you hope to be true. But I'm only doing the same, its just that we disagree as to what is truth.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Been there done that Sparko, when I was young and naive and unable to thoughtfully question what I was told. I was humble and inherited the earth, but as I got older and wiser the scales fell from my eyes and I realized what religion really is and freed myself from it. Its not to late for you either Sparko, just open your mind and rid yourself of the guilt and fear, that was impressed upon you.

I don't feel any guilt or fear. I feel freer than I ever did as an atheist or agnostic.

Hope for what? Oh the reward. Sparko, lets get this straight, even if I were to believe in a God, I would not believe in a God like the Christian God whom I find to be dispicable. I could never love or worship a being who would do what in my own judgment is immoral and that is how I see the God that you believe in. So, that ain't gonna happen. If there is a God, then in order for me to worship him, he'd better be good in my eyes else I couldn't give a damn about him.

And as I said above, if that is the way you feel, then God will oblige you and you won't have to put up with him for eternity. Just don't whine about it when the time comes.

No, not sure what you mean, what are the consequences of relying on yourself? And I have no fear that I will one day be kneeling before a God, such an idea is silly. And btw, most of those millions of believers that you speak of don't even know the gospel, which is one of the main reasons they believe it.

The consequences of relying on yourself when you are before God at the judgment is that your own actions and words will condemn you. And of course the "millions of believers" know the gospel. That is why they are believers.

[JonathanL]

There have been numerous accounts of miraculous births of various sorts and there’s no credible historical basis for any of them. E.g. in Egypt, virgin mother Isis begot Horus; in Greece Adonis was born of a virgin and was resurrected after being killed by a wild boar – the Phoenicians considered him to be a dying-and-rising god; Perseus and Hercules both had virgin births after being fathered by yet other gods; Mithra was a Persian god who was also virgin born - and so on. There are scores of such myths and all have the miraculous in common despite differing details. It was the sort of thing gods did back then.

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. According to the mythology Isis after recombining the parts of Osiris had sexual intercourse with the dead corpse and became pregnant with Horus.

There is no indication Adonis was ever thought to be born of a virgin. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/adonis.html

[rogue06]

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. According to the mythology Isis after recombining the parts of Osiris had sexual intercourse with the dead corpse and became pregnant with Horus.

There is no indication Adonis was ever thought to be born of a virgin. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/adonis.html

Perseus was impregnated by Zeus (in the form of a golden shower) while locked in a bronze chamber.


And of course, the most compelling parallel of all, Mithra, born of the virgin rock.


You're full of crock Tassman.

[JonathanL]

Fixed.

[seer]

True Christians don't sin. Or so I've been told by some Christians. My response to that usually runs along the lines of: If true Christians don't sin, then I've never met a true Christian. However, this idea has been bugging me lately, and I have a number of questions about it. I note that it's not a universal Christian doctrine. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, the Catholic Church teaches that all humans are sinners, even the Christians. That's why they have confessionals, after all. The members of the flock go to the confessionals to admit their latest sins, repent, and seek forgiveness. I've met a lot of Protestants who similarly believe that Christians sin. So the position that Christians don't sin would seem to be a minority viewpoint.

My questions:

Are there specific denominations that teach the idea that true Christians don't sin?

Is it a popular view among Christians around here?

Which would be true, under this view? Or do both flavors exist out there? Or is it some other explanation that I've overlooked?
- True Christians have already been forgiven, so nothing they do is considered to be sinful, even if it would be considered sinful for others.
- True Christians simply don't do things that would be considered sinful for others.

Do Christians who believe that Christians sin see a Biblical contradiction in the idea that Christians don't sin? And vice versa? I'd like to get a better understanding of the arguments involved. The idea that true Christians don't sin seems to me to be nonsensical on the face of it, so any attempt to make it make sense would be appreciated.

"I've never been a sinner, I never sinned, I got a friend in Jesus." From the song Spirit in the Sky. Meaning that in Christ all our sins are forgiven as if we never sinned, washed clean by the Blood of Christ.

Turn it up and Enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swIcX57vYDI

[Yttrium]

"I've never been a sinner, I never sinned, I got a friend in Jesus." From the song Spirit in the Sky. Meaning that in Christ all our sins are forgiven as if we never sinned, washed clean by the Blood of Christ.

*hums song thoughtfully*

So, I take it that this means you might do things that otherwise could be considered sinful (possibly through accident or ignorance), but you're forgiven from the sin, so it doesn't count as sin.

[KingsGambit]

Um, I've always considered Spirit in the Sky to be a rather blasphemous song from a Christian perspective and those lyrics not to represent a Christian point of view... (Norman Greenbaum is not and has never been a Christian.)

[Yttrium]

Um, I've always considered Spirit in the Sky to be a rather blasphemous song from a Christian perspective and those lyrics not to represent a Christian point of view... (Norman Greenbaum is not and has never been a Christian.)

It has a catchy tune, though.