Is God Immoral?

[seer]

I think a much closer analogy would be the slaver who thinks he is justified in torturing and killing his slaves simply because he owns them.

All you have in the end is a might makes right mentality. God is a celestial Calvin Candie.

First, might makes right is how the world runs. Just ask the rapist that society jails. Second Enjolras, perhaps God is sometimes so severe because we are often so wicked. Third, God does not arbitrarily make such decisions. If He did order such things He had good reasons - the world may have been much worse off without those interventions. We do not have that knowledge we are making ethical judgments in the dark.

[shunyadragon]

First problem here is that morality is human constraint on the issue of right and wrong, and the Omnipotent, omnipresent all powerful God would not moral nor immoral.

Second, the Tanakh and part of the NT like the Book of Revelation describe a God with human characteristics such as jealousy, vengeance, and waging a Holy War against evil forces. The scripture describes a god or god(s) that apparently changes over time. The logical conclusion is the Bible, and to a certain extent all the worlds scripture is more the human view of God and not the nature of God as God's self.

[Kelp(p)]

Second, the Tanakh and part of the NT like the Book of Revelation describe a God with human characteristics such as jealousy, vengeance, and waging a Holy War against evil forces. The scripture describes a god or god(s) that apparently changes over time. The logical conclusion is the Bible, and to a certain extent all the worlds scripture is more the human view of God and not the nature of God as God's self.

No, I really don't think that will wash. Obviously you have no problem believing that the Baha'i God has desires in some sense (iy created the universe, it sends revelation, it through the manifestations, it makes commands, etc.

If makes sense that the authors of any Scripture would try to cast the acts of God in a form that humans can understand and shouldn't necessarily have any bearing on the question of their truthfulness. There is a difference between saying, "God did this" and "God did this because He was angry."

Indeed, there are parts of Scripture that speak against some elements of anthropomorphism.


Numbers 23:19

God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.

Psalm 50:12-13

If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world and its fullness are mine.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls
or drink the blood of goats?

Isaiah 55:8-9

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[whag]

Whag, I gave you a similar argument. You still need to respond to it.



Though, TimelessTheist, I do have one bone to pick with your presentation. I don't think these are actual babies here. The babies would have died in the chaos of battle. What we're looking at seems more likely to be boys younger than fighting age (which would be 13 or so, I'd imagine) that were hiding among the virgin girls, as Miller writes http://christianthinktank.com/midian.html

I did respond to it:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ge22&styleid=1 (#215)

You should be ashamed to link to such a piece of trash.

[Kelp(p)]

I did respond to it:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ge22&styleid=1 (#215)

You should be ashamed to link to such a piece of trash.

My, aren't we on our high horse today? I meant my rebuttal to your response, dinggledorf. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post125007

[whag]

My, aren't we on our high horse today? I meant my rebuttal to your response, dinggledorf. http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post125007

Hahaha. Sorry, I just noticed that. =)

Let me go respond to your defense of religious genocide.

[Kelp(p)]

Hahaha. Sorry, I just noticed that. =)

S'alright.

[whag]

S'alright.

You can have the last word. I forgot the part where it said the captors could marry menstruating 12 year-old girl captives and concluded this is a futile discussion. Back then, it was okay to enforce pregnancy on preteens and kill war orphans.

[Jedidiah]

And even if babies go directly to heaven, it is still murder to kill them.

[shunyadragon]

No, I really don't think that will wash. Obviously you have no problem believing that the Baha'i God has desires in some sense (iy created the universe, it sends revelation, it through the manifestations, it makes commands, etc.

Actually no, there are no moral right and wrong, and no desire in any sense. Creation is part of the nature of God.

If makes sense that the authors of any Scripture would try to cast the acts of God in a form that humans can understand and shouldn't necessarily have any bearing on the question of their truthfulness. There is a difference between saying, "God did this" and "God did this because He was angry."

Indeed, there are parts of Scripture that speak against some elements of anthropomorphism.

There are parts of scripture where 'God did this because he was angry, jealous or in vengeance.'

Nahum 1:2-8 KJV



There are actually a number of references like the above in the Tanakh

[jordanriver]

Actually no, there are no moral right and wrong, and no desire in any sense. Creation is part of the nature of God.



There are parts of scripture where 'God did this because he was angry, jealous or in vengeance.'

Nahum 1:2-8 KJV

2 The LORD is a jealous and vengeful God; the LORD is vengeful and strong in wrath. The LORD is vengeful against his foes; he rages against his enemies. 3 The LORD is very patient but great in power; the LORD punishes. His way is in whirlwind and storm; clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He can blast the sea and make it dry up; he can dry up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither; the bud of Lebanon withers. 5 The mountains quake because of him; the hills melt away. The earth heaves before him— the world and all who dwell in it. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? Who can confront the heat of his fury? His wrath pours out like fire; the rocks are shattered because of him. 7 The LORD is good, a haven in a day of distress. He acknowledges those who take refuge in him. 8 With a rushing flood, he will utterly destroy her place and pursue his enemies into darkness.

There are actually a number of references like the above in the Tanakh

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:31)

[whag]

And even if babies go directly to heaven, it is still murder to kill them.

Unless God tells you to, you mean.

[KingsGambit]

Honestly, I'd rather bite the bullet and call myself pro-choice. "We don't know," is nothing but a cop out. The folk theology is at least partially supported by an appeal to the compassion of God.

How is it a copout? If the Bible doesn't clearly address it, we should not pretend otherwise.

[Kelp(p)]

You can have the last word. I forgot the part where it said the captors could marry menstruating 12 year-old girl captives and concluded this is a futile discussion. Back then, it was okay to enforce pregnancy on preteens and kill war orphans.

Damn right it was. The girls would have been glad for the chance to survive.

You can't read an ancient text with a mind to force our modern comfort-derived values on it.

[Kelp(p)]

Actually no, there are no moral right and wrong, and no desire in any sense. Creation is part of the nature of God.

So your God is a robot? How inspiring...

There are parts of scripture where 'God did this because he was angry, jealous or in vengeance.'

Nahum 1:2-8 KJV

2 The LORD is a jealous and vengeful God; the LORD is vengeful and strong in wrath. The LORD is vengeful against his foes; he rages against his enemies. 3 The LORD is very patient but great in power; the LORD punishes. His way is in whirlwind and storm; clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He can blast the sea and make it dry up; he can dry up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither; the bud of Lebanon withers. 5 The mountains quake because of him; the hills melt away. The earth heaves before him— the world and all who dwell in it. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? Who can confront the heat of his fury? His wrath pours out like fire; the rocks are shattered because of him. 7 The LORD is good, a haven in a day of distress. He acknowledges those who take refuge in him. 8 With a rushing flood, he will utterly destroy her place and pursue his enemies into darkness.

There are actually a number of references like the above in the Tanakh

I didn't say there weren't. I just said there is a bit of a tension regarding that in the text so I don't we can just make a clear cut, "Ancient fools cavalierly foisting human emotions on God."