Is God Immoral?

[jordanriver]

In the scenario I gave the babies were not tortured for anything they did, but for God's entertainment. So even if one were to grant the absurd contention that babies somehow deserve torture, that would be irrelevant.

I am not saying babies deserve torture.

[jordanriver]

I wrote 'torture,' not 'kill.'

Oh.
I thought this was a discussion about what it says in Bible

[whag]

Only if they grow up.

....all have sinexample.

But bible indicates babies pass go, and go straight to heaven (David and Bathsheba's baby example)

Immediate translation to heaven is an excellent justification to kill Midianite baby boys and abort human fetuses. Thanks for equating the two.

[Enjolras]

Oh.
I thought this was a discussion about what it says in Bible

I gave a hypothetical scenario to see how far some Christians are willing to go in support of Divine Command Theory.

[whag]

I am not saying babies deserve torture.

Yes, just spearing through the stomach. How else do you imagine the Midianite boys were dispatched?

[KingsGambit]

The idea that babies automatically go to heaven is NOT biblically supported. David is quoted as saying he had hope of seeing the child again, but there is no indication that this was anything beyond his personal view/hope. In my view, Christians ought to replace this piece of folk theology with a sort of agnosticism that says "we don't know what happens", because as whag has pointed out, it can be used to support mass abortions.

[Doug Shaver]

We are not omniscient.
We are not justified killing babies because we do not know which babies are going to be the next Stalin, Pol Pot, or George Tiller.

Bible - God OTOH is omniscient and cannot be second-guessed.

So, whether it's wrong to kill babies is a situational thing? It's not absolutely wrong?

[TimelessTheist]

1 Samuel 15:3 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"

I'm sure the children and infants deserved to die, but what do suppose the donkeys did?

Who the heck cares? They're donkeys.

[Enjolras]

Who the heck cares? They're donkeys.

I know, right!? Dumb 'ol donkeys...off with their heads!

[TimelessTheist]

The thread is about seer's admission he can't morally justify biblical atrocities. I don't believe those events were ordered by a god, so I'm not arguing from that basis.

The real question is why you feel compelled to believe it literal and defend it thus. Why not simp!y acknowledge it wasn't a divine command?

How can't we justify them? Men and women were killed for perpetuating the actions, children for two reasons: 1) So they wouldn't be able to take revenge. 2) The Israelites, at the time of the massacre, barely had enough infrastructure and control to keep their own society under control, much less when a couple thousand of foreigners, who had just happened to have been raised as violent pagans, have to be absorbed into it. This is shown by the frequent riots during the traveling through the desert, after the oppression at the hands of the Philistines, ect. In some instances, God even had to step in and kill the rebels for them.

And the infants were killed for the latter of the two reasons.

See? Justified.

[TimelessTheist]

I know, right!? Dumb 'ol donkeys...off with their heads!

I know, right?!! Donkey massacres are fun fer the whole family!

[jordanriver]

Immediate translation to heaven is an excellent justification to kill Midianite baby boys and abort human fetuses. Thanks for equating the two.

no.

already explained that in POST 39

[jordanriver]

The idea that babies automatically go to heaven is NOT biblically supported. David is quoted as saying he had hope of seeing the child again, but there is no indication that this was anything beyond his personal view/hope. In my view, Christians ought to replace this piece of folk theology with a sort of agnosticism that says "we don't know what happens", because as whag has pointed out, it can be used to support mass abortions.

David THE PROPHET ?

David the Prophet of many Psalms?

that David?

[jordanriver]

So, whether it's wrong to kill babies is a situational thing? It's not absolutely wrong?

it is wrong for humans to kill babies.

...so far, with the information I have so far.

[KingsGambit]

David THE PROPHET ?

David the Prophet of many Psalms?

that David?

His statement wasn't in a book of prophecy or in that sort of context at all. I take it more as the sort of comforting thing that people say at funerals (see you soon someday, etc.). At that point in time, the Jews did not have the full picture of what happens after death, and would not until Jesus came. (Much of the Old Testament is indicative of that; there are not many hints of life after death in there.) David was no exception.