Originally posted by whag
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Animals Doing What Animals Do...
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by whag View PostThe title alone telegraphed its trajectory. To begin from the standpoint that chimps rend competitive chimp penises, and so we should, too, if we live in a godless universe, is a pretty sad launching point for a conversation.
As I've pointed out in previous threads, modern atheist behavior is about as dysgenic as you can get. Atheists are pathetic, weak, mewling, crybaby losers despite inheriting the greatest civilization in the history of the planet. Compare Britain today, which imports muslims to rape their teenage girls, with Imperial Britain. There's no question that the British then were a very successful organism whereas the British today are a laughingstock that don't even deserve to be called a shadow of their former self.
While going on manic killing sprees isn't very productive behavior, the ethics taught to us by what appears to be an extremely progressive atheist culture are probably just as bad. From a materialistic perspective it makes perfect sense to band up with those closest to you and cooperate with each other whereas outgroups should be subjugated, destroyed and used whenever possible."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by seer View PostIt is not about what we should do - it is about what we actually do. The Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking are perfectly natural acts. As natural as one group of chimps slaughtering another group - so the question is, why does one act cause you moral outrage while the other doesn't? When monkeys do it, well that is just nature. When humans do it - oh the horror!!! Irrational...
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
As I've pointed out in previous threads, modern atheist behavior is about as dysgenic as you can get. Atheists are pathetic, weak, mewling, crybaby losers despite inheriting the greatest civilization in the history of the planet. Compare Britain today, which imports muslims to rape their teenage girls, with Imperial Britain. There's no question that the British then were a very successful organism whereas the British today are a laughingstock that don't even deserve to be called a shadow of their former self.
While going on manic killing sprees isn't very productive behavior, the ethics taught to us by what appears to be an extremely progressive atheist culture are probably just as bad. From a materialistic perspective it makes perfect sense to band up with those closest to you and cooperate with each other whereas outgroups should be subjugated, destroyed and used whenever possible.
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Originally posted by whag View PostParanoia level: seanD"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostThen what does your post mean? Out of all the behaviors that promote success in population groups, you choose some that you feel are 'ethical' and call them that?
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Originally posted by seer View PostHow does that change anything?
All through history we see one tribe or one nation or one country attacking another. As you say, animals doing what animals do (social animals anyway). This is just what we would expect if evolution is true. Some of these tribes/nations/countries claim their god is on their side. The Hebrews did, the Nazis did, and many, many others too, with many, many different gods. Apparent that is what smart and social animals do.
What's the big deal - just animals doing what animals do.
No god necessary.My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/
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Originally posted by The Pixie View PostI am not sure I get your point.
All through history we see one tribe or one nation or one country attacking another. As you say, animals doing what animals do (social animals anyway). This is just what we would expect if evolution is true. Some of these tribes/nations/countries claim their god is on their side. The Hebrews did, the Nazis did, and many, many others too, with many, many different gods. Apparent that is what smart and social animals do.
Correct.
No god necessary.
to this
"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Comment
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Originally posted by seer View PostIt is not about what we should do - it is about what we actually do. The Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking are perfectly natural acts. As natural as one group of chimps slaughtering another group - so the question is, why does one act cause you moral outrage while the other doesn't? When monkeys do it, well that is just nature. When humans do it - oh the horror!!! Irrational...
What we “actually do”, despite the gross aberrations such as the Rape of Nanking, The Crusades, The Inquisitions and Salem Witch-Burnings, is develop and sustain highly complex social communities, maintain law and order via legislation and legal systems and generally behave like the altruistic, cooperative social creatures that we have evolved to be via natural selection.
IF the “Rape of Nanking, The Crusades, The Inquisitions and Salem Witch-Burnings” et al, were what we “naturally” do we would regard such things as the norm, but we don’t. We recognize them as social aberrations - and, in more recent times, set up bodies such as the UN and The International Court of Justice to deal with such atrocities.Last edited by Tassman; 11-18-2014, 04:29 AM.
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Originally posted by whag View PostAll I know is I'm gonna shield my gonads when you discover God doesn't exist.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by The Pixie View PostI am not sure I get your point.
All through history we see one tribe or one nation or one country attacking another. As you say, animals doing what animals do (social animals anyway). This is just what we would expect if evolution is true. Some of these tribes/nations/countries claim their god is on their side. The Hebrews did, the Nazis did, and many, many others too, with many, many different gods. Apparent that is what smart and social animals do.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostNope. Much has been written on this topic by many gifted philosophers. I choose not to have your words in my mouth. I simply say there are many ways to approach ethics and morality. You may feel that a God is necessary. I do not. I'm sure we're both intelligent and reasonable. I respect your decision. I'm sure it's based on lots of reading and thinking. So is mine. I doubt whether any thread started by Seer can ever lead to anything good. I shouldn't have said anything at all. My mistake.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostMy point is that I question the moral outrage that I find in many non-theistic circles. Whag is a perfect example of this. And the fact that most atheists I have know really do intuitively believe that something is deeply wrong in the world, something really wrong with much of human behavior. We are uncomfortable with our environment - I find that strange - would a fish, if he could, complain that he is wet?
You seem to be arguing then that what is right is whatever God says is right, and what is wrong is whatever God say is wrong. Is that right?
Therefore, it would follow that you think people are not capable of telling right from wrong. Is that right?
My view is the opposite. I believe that humans are able to tell right from wrong. This sets them apart from fish, chimps, etc. This means that when we do morally wrong we are culpable in a way that fish and chimps are not.
I think murder is wrong because of something intrinsic in the act, and not depending on whether a god has decided it is.
I think slavery is wrong because of something intrinsic in the act. I think that this is something mankind's collective morality has developed over centuries (perhaps helped by improved technology). I do not think slavery is right because the Christian god says it. And nor do Christians nowadays.My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/
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