Can we trust what God says?

[Christianbookworm]

That, in and of itself, is irrelevant. Truth is not decided by doing a nose count.



Cerebrum123 saw my point.
But just so we're clear, what do you mean by "dictate word for word"? Are you talking about God audibly speaking to the scribe?

I know, it's just that I couldn't quite get what you meant. Yeah, I suppose I thought you were refering to God audibly telling the writer exactly what to write. I wonder what the scholarly view is?

[Mr. Black]

Uhhh... I don't know how many people go for that view of inspiration.

That, in and of itself, is irrelevant. Truth is not decided by doing a nose count.

He didn't dictate word for word!

Cerebrum123 saw my point.
But just so we're clear, what do you mean by "dictate word for word"? Are you talking about God audibly speaking to the scribe?

[whag]

I don't see where Mr. Black claimed what you said. He merely said that God is ultimately the author. He didn't speculate on the method God used to get His message across.

"A human was the scribe that God used to physically write it down."

If it's not word for word, the obvious question is "why not?" What's being omitted from the original message?

[Christianbookworm]

I don't see where Mr. Black claimed what you said. He merely said that God is ultimately the author. He didn't speculate on the method God used to get His message across.

The scribe that wrote it down part. Sorry if I misinterpreted it.

[Cerebrum123]

Uhhh... I don't know how many people go for that view of inspiration. He didn't dictate word for word!

I don't see where Mr. Black claimed what you said. He merely said that God is ultimately the author. He didn't speculate on the method God used to get His message across.

[Christianbookworm]

The Author of Genesis is God. A human was the scribe that God used to physically write it down. Whether or not the human scribe had a comprehensive revelation of man and his post-physical life dwellings is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that God---the Author of Genesis, as well as the rest of the Bible---did. So yes, Seer's point is relevant.

Uhhh... I don't know how many people go for that view of inspiration. He didn't dictate word for word!

[Mr. Black]

I might think that was relevant to an understanding of Genesis, if I thought the author of Genesis was a Christian theologian.

The Author of Genesis is God. A human was the scribe that God used to physically write it down. Whether or not the human scribe had a comprehensive revelation of man and his post-physical life dwellings is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that God---the Author of Genesis, as well as the rest of the Bible---did. So yes, Seer's point is relevant.

[Doug Shaver]

First, according to Christian theology when a man dies in this world that is not the end of him. He still lives.

I might think that was relevant to an understanding of Genesis, if I thought the author of Genesis was a Christian theologian.

[whag]

This is actually pretty easy to answer: God is justified in taking our lives whenever He wants, because our sins have made us deserving of death. There are no sins however, that would make a person deserving of being lied to.]This is actually pretty easy to answer: God is justified in taking our lives whenever He wants, because our sins have made us deserving of death.

Big flaw here. Babies are killed, yet babies can't sin.

There are no sins however, that would make a person deserving of being lied to.

Since when is killing worse than dishonesty? I was dishonest when my wife asked if she looked fat in her new dress.

[Mr. Black]

If God is free to kill us when convenient, why should we imagine he is not free to lie to us when convenient?

Because God can't lie.
"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago," (Titus 1:2)

God lied in the Bible:

False. Adam and Eve experienced spiritual death in the Garden of Eden as the result of their disobedience.

Since you bring up the issue of lying and truth (and to accuse God of "lying" assumes that you know at least some truth), I'd like to know what the standard of truth is in your worldview, by which you intend to impugn God, and according to which you intend to hold Him accountable.

[shunyadragon]

Which one!

Good question from Christian perspective where scripture includes polytheistic and monotheistic views. My view is simple; there is only one God and Creator that is viewed differently from the fallible human culture perspective. This difference and evolution of 'What is God or God(s) known by different names over time in the Bible.

What is God? God is three letter word.

[tabibito]

So why does it say circle and not ball?

that's why.

[The Pixie]

Genesis 1: 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Do you think the firmament was just sky? Let there be sky in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters? Sure sounds like you would want a solid structure for that.

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

I would suggest "molten looking glass" is a reference to a polished metal mirror, as glass mirrors were unknown at that time. God spread out a solid metal structure.

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

God opened windows in the air or in a solid structure?

But most telling of all is that raqia meant a solid structure, as the site I linked to before makes clear. Kind of stange you want to offer the English word as evidence really.

And if you check that passage against other scriptures, you will come to Isaiah 40:22, which says,

It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Which clearly says that the earth is a sphere.

And Job 26:10-11

"He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness. The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

Actually they say a circle, not a sphere. The Israelites had a word for ball, but rather than use that, they chose the word for circle.

And it even says there is a dome created by God, though here they use the analogy of a tent, as we might expect from desert nomads. Oh, I took the liberty of adding the next verse. The pillars of heaven would be where the firmament rests at the horizon.

Oh, look! A horizon! And that spot is called a "terminator", because it is where the light "stops". If you were standing on the terminator you would be either experiencing either sunrise or sunset. Going from dark into light or light into dark. And the terminator is always a circle, because the earth is round.

Imaginative.

Another interpretation is that the inscribing of a circle is the creation process. Genesis says:

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Before God started there was water, upon which the Spirit of God moved. He created a flat circular world, a process that began by creating light within the darkness.

You might want to note that Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible, so even from the earliest times man understood that the earth is round.

So why does it say circle and not ball?

And Proverbs 8:27

Again, a reference to Genesis 1. A circle is inscribed on the deep, i.e., the waters. Not a ball created in space.

And Job 38:13-14

That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

referring to the earth.

Seals were often cylindrical shapes carved with the name of the bearer. They were rolled across wet clay to imprint the carving on the seal. So, just as the seal is rolled across the clay and it's features become apparent, the earth, as it rotates on it's axis and is exposed to light, has it's features become apparent to the viewer.

Again, I added an extra verse. This one mentions the ends of the earth. I would understand that to mean the rim of the circle. How about you?

An alternative interpretation of verse 14 is that it is about dawn's light coming across the land. At first everything seems flat, as the clay is before the seal, but then the sun's light illuminates the landscape, and the full relief can be seen, as though the clay has been pressed by a seal (okay, not one I would have got, but see here).

[mossrose]

As the earth turns on it's axis, it's features are displayed in the light, just as the features of the seal are displayed when it is turned in the clay. The features of a seal usually cannot be viewed until it is stamped, or rolled, as the image is a mirror of what is on the seal.

The point is that the earth rotates, God tells Job so, so the earth is round and it was understood to be so from earliest times.

I am done now. Don't have the inclination to respond further. I have given my answer to the op and the rest is tiresome in responding to those who won't and can't see the truth.

[tabibito]

Which clearly says that the earth is a sphere.

Again, current belief is that ancient belief considered it to be a disc.

It is turned as clay to the seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

"turned" is "becomes" or "formed" - the Earth is not the seal but the clay under the influence of the seal. The seal leaves raised and indented imprints on the clay/Earth.