Religion: Better For Moral Health Of Community?

[seer]

Not a lie. You don't take your religion seriously. If you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time on an Internet forum. You would instead be out in the street protesting and organizing to take over America as a religious theocracy - just like the jihadists are doing with Islam.

NORM

See Norm, what you originally said was a complete lie. You are not in the least bit happy that I believe the way I do. You are a liar Norm and a bigot.

[seer]

Seer, you have over 2,800 posts on this forum since February or whenever this forum was rebooted. You are more concerned with arguing your point than actual action. I have no fear that you will be part of any kind of theistic revolution.

NORM

I'm not sure what you mean by actual action Norm. When exactly was the last time you had a homeless person in your home? Or personally worked in a soup kitchen? Or handed out food to needy families.

[Cerealman]

I'm not sure what you mean by actual action Norm. When exactly was the last time you had a homeless person in your home? Or personally worked in a soup kitchen? Or handed out food to needy families.

Doesn't count. You didn't throw crosses at them.

[lilpixieofterror]

Not a lie. You don't take your religion seriously. If you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time on an Internet forum. You would instead be out in the street protesting and organizing to take over America as a religious theocracy - just like the jihadists are doing with Islam.

Might I suggest on some stronger meds to help you deal with your clear paranoia? Can you show me where Jesus said to take over countries and establish them as religious theocracies?

[shunyadragon]

Might I suggest on some stronger meds to help you deal with your clear paranoia? Can you show me where Jesus said to take over countries and establish them as religious theocracies?

Book of Revelation

[lilpixieofterror]

Book of Revelation

You mean the book that talks about God coming down and establishing his kingdom? Where does it say that Christians need to take over nations and establish them as religious theocracies? Go ahead shuny, quote the exact verse here and now and prove it.

[shunyadragon]

You mean the book that talks about God coming down and establishing his kingdom?

Yes! The Holy War of good versus evil.

Where does it say that Christians need to take over nations and establish them as religious theocracies? Go ahead shuny, quote the exact verse here and now and prove it.

Proof?!?!?!? You should no better. The Book of Revelation and the NT in general has been easily interpreted as the mandate from God for Theocracy for most of the history of Christianity. It does not have to specifically be proven or worded to your satisfaction. It is simply a fact of Christian history. The problem remains the Bible is thus interpreted so many different ways to result of many different churches and sort of mixed history of God's mandate for Dominion over the world for that matter. That is one of the problems of clinging to ancient world views.

[lilpixieofterror]

Yes! The Holy War of good versus evil.

And this therefore implies that Christians, for thousands of years, are to be fighting wars to take over nations and establish religious theocracies? You might want to get those same meds for paranoia that it seems Norm needs because you are really stretching things into interpretations I never read about and it seems are not accepted today or were accepted when they were written. Why are you wrong? The fact that Christians didn't fight a war to take over the Roman Empire should be an indication that your theory is bunk and you really should get yourself on some stronger meds.

Proof?!?!?!? You should no better. The Book of Revelation and the NT in general has been easily interpreted as the mandate from God for Theocracy for most of the history of Christianity. It does not have to specifically be proven or worded to your satisfaction. It is simply a fact of Christian history. The problem remains the Bible is this interpreted so many different ways to result of many different churches and sort of mixed history of God's mandate for Dominion over the world for that matter. That is one of the problems of clinging to ancient world views.

By some, sure, but too bad not all and the only thing you really got is asserting that some say X, so therefore that is true. Some also say that the Bible teaches the earth is 6,000 year old and others said the Bible taught that the sun orbited the earth. The truth is shuny, you would know this, if you bothered to research or think about it, that not all interpretations are 100% agreed up and nor accurate. The bottom line is sure, some Christians, at some point in history, might of aruged this. Many though did not and the fact that peaceful orders that stood in opposition of this concept should give you pause and burn some holes in your argument (plus the fact Christians didn't take up arms and fight Rome for control should tell you something else). Of course though, your paranoia seems to get in the way of the reality that it isn't as cut and dry as you want to pretend because you seem to want to ignore that people can and do use biblical interpretation for political reasons and it is very well possible they were wrong on what Revelation actually said and what it met to those it was written to. Now, you might want to take some stronger meds to help you with your paranoia.

[NormATive]

I'm not sure what you mean by actual action Norm. When exactly was the last time you had a homeless person in your home? Or personally worked in a soup kitchen? Or handed out food to needy families.

Ha ha! Actually, last Friday night, Seer!

Our Shul runs a soup kitchen for homeless folks. And, yes, I've had homeless folks stay at our house on numerous occasions. We normally invite at least one homeless person to our Thanksgiving dinner every year. Always have.

Even when I was a Christian, I was involved in outreach programs for the poor. It comes from my involvement with my best friend who's mother was an officer in the Salvation Army. They are required (as officers) to live in a poor community for at least two years. She taught me all about how to run an effective soup kitchen. The key is to enlist a very large list of volunteers so that the same people aren't doing it all the time. For example, I work every other Friday night (as head chef) - twice a month.

I actually did take Christianity seriously, as I do the social reform aspect of Judaism. It always came down to the fact that the religion got in the way of doing good. I do good because it is the right thing to do, not because some book told me to do it.

The difference with our soup kitchen at Shul from soup kitchens I've run for Christian groups is that we don't force the folks to listen to our proselytizing.

NORM

[NormATive]

See Norm, what you originally said was a complete lie. You are not in the least bit happy that I believe the way I do. You are a liar Norm and a bigot.

I'm thrilled as punch for you, Seer. You don't require much from life. Just all the answers. It appears that you have them. Plus, as long as you believe in the atonement theory of salvation, you won't be obsessed with taking over America.

Just stay like you are, Seer.

NORM

[NormATive]

Might I suggest on some stronger meds to help you deal with your clear paranoia? Can you show me where Jesus said to take over countries and establish them as religious theocracies?

He didn't. It's in Revelation, which I think Christians still consider part of the Bible. No? Do they not teach young pew muffins about Armageddon any more?

NORM

[NormATive]

And this therefore implies that Christians, for thousands of years, are to be fighting wars to take over nations and establish religious theocracies?

Sure, if you interpret Revelation literally....just like the Jjihadists who interpret the Qu'ran literally to justify their Holy War. What is the end game in Revelation?

Thrones? Crowns? Sound familiar????? Every knee will bow, every tongue confess....???

NORM

[lilpixieofterror]

He didn't. It's in Revelation, which I think Christians still consider part of the Bible. No? Do they not teach young pew muffins about Armageddon any more?

Sorry Norm, but if that was actually true I guess you can point out to me where Christians, in the 1st and 2nd century, plotted a war with Rome to take it over and establish it as a religious theocracy. Oh wait, that didn't happen, at all and thus your entire argument is reduced to paranoia. Go ahead Norm, please prove that the majority of Christians saw Revelation (which isn't a book met to be taken word for word literal, I would think a Jew would understand that you don't always take apocalyptic literature word for word literal) in the light of a command to take over the world. Again, might I suggest on some stronger meds?

Sure, if you interpret Revelation literally....just like the Jjihadists who interpret the Qu'ran literally to justify their Holy War. What is the end game in Revelation?

Too bad the only people who take apocalyptic literature literal are those who don't understand the genera or those with a clear case of paranoia that need to justify their silly statements without admitting they made a silly error. Bottom line is quite simple, Christians have not taken Revelation as a command to take over the world and see revelation as more of a non literal light. Too bad though that Mohammad spread Islam though war and conquest and it is far easier to make a literalistic case that Mohammad met to spread Islam by Holy War vs attempting to pull an apocalyptic book into a literal light, that so few take that you would need to be living in lala land not to know that. Stronger meds Norm...

Thrones? Crowns? Sound familiar????? Every knee will bow, every tongue confess....???

And that therefore means that it is the goal of Christians to take over the world and force people to be Christians or else? Wow Norm, you really do need some stronger meds because I tend to find most Christians take those parts of Revelation as meaning God will establish his kingdom and everybody will have to realize that God is the one in charge. Thus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. Despite your clear paranoia, still not a command to take over the world. Again, you might want to increase your meds to help you deal with your paranoia.

[NormATive]

Sorry Norm, but if that was actually true I guess....blah, blah, blah...

Incoherent. I suggest you re-read Revelation.

You also might want to read some history books - start with the year 70CE.

NORM

[whag]

It certainly is the backbone of charity...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/su...e-charity.html

Conversely, it is the backbone of conflict. You argue the absense of it takes charity mostly away. I could concur World Vision would disappear without religion, but I also can't unsee religion's role in conflict, particularly in justifying violence and power grabs.