Originally posted by shunyadragon
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The reason people reject the resurrection
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe main reason is they would have to go from being Muslim or Jew to Christian. The reason they do not know is their ignorance of the correct understanding of the good news of unmerited favor only offered through the Christian faith I dare say you do not understand why it must be true.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI am responding the erroneous assertion in circular reasoning of the thread proposal that those that believed in the 'supernatural' the evidence is conclusive that based on the claim of evidence' they would believe. You are confirming this that if they converted to Christianity they would believe. As Jews and Musims, and other religions as well that believe in the supernatural, the evidence claimed is not sufficient for a reason to believe in a physical Resurrection.Last edited by 37818; 05-25-2020, 12:35 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe suppostion that the evidence is not sufficient does not make it so.
There is historically an actual date for the New Testament events.
Islam is contingent on Christianity. Christianity is contingent on Judaism. And based on 70AD distruction of the Jewish temple,
if Christianity is not true, an argument can be made Judaism is not true.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostAs per the topic of the thread it is only sufficient evidence for those that believe it is . . .
People die when they are killed?
The archer class is really made up of archers?
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostAn easy argument can be made that all Theistic religions are not true.
And if you're saying that an easy argument can be made that any theistic religion is not true, then I think it's more accurate to say that an easily dismissed argument can be made that any theistic religion is not true.Last edited by JonathanL; 05-26-2020, 10:30 AM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThere is historically an actual date for the New Testament events.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI notice all of the posts complaining about the facts, are nothing but conjecture with no evidence at all. strange.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostActually - I thought BP's response was clear and based on facts. It appears that most of the claims made about the resurrection are themselves "conjecture," a discussion I was having with Seer for a while, until he "abandoned ship."
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo, they are based on people actually witnessing the events, which is evidence.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou can claim you don't believe the evidence, but it is there.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostMerely conjecturing that they might have done this, or might have done that, is just guessing without any evidence at all.Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-26-2020, 03:00 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo, they are based on people actually witnessing the events, which is evidence. You can claim you don't believe the evidence, but it is there. Merely conjecturing that they might have done this, or might have done that, is just guessing without any evidence at all.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAgain - this is conjecture. What you have in the NT is a report ABOUT people witnessing the events, which is not evidence from the actual witnesses. We do not know that the authors are themselves witnesses because, in many cases, we do not know who the authors actually are.
Actually, I have not said this. As with my discussion with Seer, what I have actually said is that the historical claims made about Jesus of Nazareth do not have adequate support to sustain the claim "these things happened." That is specific to the miracles, the quoted words of Jesus, and the details of daily activity.
That is pretty much my point: anyone who claims "I know what happened" cannot support that claim, whether they are believing the NT claims to be true or believing them to be false. At best, we end up with "we don't know." What we have in the NT is a presumably accurate reflection of what the community that arose after Jesus died believed at the time of the writing of the texts. Since the earliest dates to at least 20 years after Jesus' death, and the latest to as much as 70 years after, we are seeing the beliefs of a community that has had time to consider, reflect, develop a philosophy and theology, and apparently admitted many new members who would, in turn, very likely impact the beliefs of the group.
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