Red Letter Christianity

[Mountain Man]

While not extremely common I'd hardly characterize it as rare.

I wouldn't even characterize it as uncommon.

[carpedm9587]

How about the previous post of yours?

I believe the statement says, "it's not the kind of person I want to be." It doesn't say "I never do that so I'm better than you."

Each of us strives to be the best person we can as measured by our sense of "best." I'm not different in that respect. I make no claims to being perfect at accomplishing it - or even better than anyone else. I do know that the kind of person MM apparently is perfectly comfortable being is not the kind of person I want to strive to be. If that makes me "holier than thou" - so be it. I can live with the designation.

[carpedm9587]

In other words, your "Where is this behavior exhibited in the Bible?" argument just blew up in your smug little face.

As my pastor once said, Jesus was always loving, but he wasn't always nice.

I'm very curious, MM - do you see your behavior here, especially to nonchristians, as "loving?"

[Sparko]

I believe the statement says, "it's not the kind of person I want to be." It doesn't say "I never do that so I'm better than you."

Each of us strives to be the best person we can as measured by our sense of "best." I'm not different in that respect. I make no claims to being perfect at accomplishing it - or even better than anyone else. I do know that the kind of person MM apparently is perfectly comfortable being is not the kind of person I want to strive to be. If that makes me "holier than thou" - so be it. I can live with the designation.

You clearly implied you were better than him because he WAS the kind of person you said you didn't want to be. ipso facto.

[carpedm9587]

You clearly implied you were better than him because he WAS the kind of person you said you didn't want to be. ipso facto.

I do indeed think that anyone who delights in childishly mocking and belittling other people, and defends the behavior, is behaving in an immoral fashion and someone who does not do those things is behaving in a more moral fashion. I try not to do those things, so I do indeed see myself as more moral than MM with respect to that issue. That's a function of how we view the world through our individual moral lenses. Of course, I also support the LGBTQ community and do not see many sexual acts as "moral issues," so I'm sure there are many here who consider me "morally depraved," and hence see themselves as "better." That's basically how morality works.

It's not clear how any of this makes anyone "holier than thou." But if that's how I'm perceived...

[Mountain Man]

I could as easily have pointed to Rogue's or Sparko's mocking memes.

Could have, but didn't.

[Mountain Man]

I'm very curious, MM - do you see your behavior here, especially to nonchristians, as "loving?"

Yes, but probably not in the way you understand the term.

"What Is Love?"

[carpedm9587]

Yes, but probably not in the way you understand the term.

"What Is Love?"

Then definitely - I see your definition and expression of "love" as seriously twisted.

I love my sons and have challenged them many times. I do not confuse "love" with "huggy" and "feel good." Sometimes, love is "tough." It does not have to be mocking and condescending and belittling. That is not love. It's just trolling and satisfying a desire to justify childish behavior.

I don't admire it. I don't aspire to it. I would never tolerate it from my children. I certainly will not befriend anyone who confuses their need to act that way with "love."

[Sparko]

I do indeed think that anyone who delights in childishly mocking and belittling other people, and defends the behavior, is behaving in an immoral fashion and someone who does not do those things is behaving in a more moral fashion. I try not to do those things, so I do indeed see myself as more moral than MM with respect to that issue. That's a function of how we view the world through our individual moral lenses. Of course, I also support the LGBTQ community and do not see many sexual acts as "moral issues," so I'm sure there are many here who consider me "morally depraved," and hence see themselves as "better." That's basically how morality works.

It's not clear how any of this makes anyone "holier than thou." But if that's how I'm perceived...

Look you asked where you were doing it as if you were not, and I showed you. Now you are just trying to justify your behavior.

[carpedm9587]

Look you asked where you were doing it as if you were not, and I showed you. Now you are just trying to justify your behavior.

Explain - yes. I don't need to justify. My behavior has not been anything I find requires "justification." Despite the likelihood that I'm going to be told I'm acting the same as MM by pointing out the behavior - I'm not. If you cannot tell the difference...

[Mountain Man]

I do indeed think that anyone who delights in childishly mocking and belittling other people, and defends the behavior, is behaving in an immoral fashion and someone who does not do those things is behaving in a more moral fashion.

Again with the antagonistic language. You could have struck the word "childishly" from this sentence, and it would not have changed your overall point. However, you deliberately used that term to insult me. Now before you attempt to defend yourself (I suspect you want to say something like, "I don't use the term to be insulting but to be accurate," or another similarly lame excuse), you should understand that I don't care. Insult me all you want. I dish it out, but I can also take it.

The irony, of course, is that you (and others who share your opinion) understand the effectiveness of using shame to compel a change in behavior, or to at least draw attention to behavior that you feel is wrong, but hypocritically, you think that only you know how to employ it "correctly", and that people like me do it "incorrectly" simply because you happen to disagree with rather charming style of debate.

[carpedm9587]

Could have, but didn't.

Correct. I chose a single example as an example. But hey, if you'd like to make it all about you... go for it!

[Mountain Man]

Then definitely - I see your definition and expression of "love" as seriously twisted.

I love my sons and have challenged them many times. I do not confuse "love" with "huggy" and "feel good." Sometimes, love is "tough." It does not have to be mocking and condescending and belittling. That is not love. It's just trolling and satisfying a desire to justify childish behavior.

I don't admire it. I don't aspire to it. I would never tolerate it from my children. I certainly will not befriend anyone who confuses their need to act that way with "love."

I'm not sure it would be possible to fit any more incorrect assumptions into such a short post.

[Mountain Man]

Correct. I chose a single example as an example. But hey, if you'd like to make it all about you... go for it!

Dude, you made it all about me. Don't get gun-shy just because I called you on it.

[carpedm9587]

Again with the antagonistic language. You could have struck the word "childishly" from this sentence, and it would not have changed your overall point.

You're correct. Mocking and belittling behavior is intrinsically childish, so including the adjective is redundant. It could have been omitted.

However, you deliberately used that term to insult me.

Actually, I included it because I consider the behavior childish; and simply did not consider the redundancy of it. But I acknowledge I could drop it without loss of meaning, and the sentence would have been less provocative without it. So - I apologize for the selection of language.

Now before you attempt to defend yourself (I suspect you want to say something like, "I don't use the term to be insulting but to be accurate," or another similarly lame excuse), you should understand that I don't care. Insult me all you want. I dish it out, but I can also take it.

Actually - my intent is not to insult - though I recognize that it is highly likely that someone called on such behavior will feel insulted. It IS my intent to call out the behavior as inappropriate for a mature adult. The "childish" was a thoughtless and unnecessary adjective, as you correctly pointed out.

The irony, of course, is that you (and others who share your opinion) understand the effectiveness of using shame to compel a change in behavior, or to at least draw attention to behavior that you feel is wrong, but hypocritically, you think that only you know how to employ it "correctly", and that people like me do it "incorrectly" simply because you happen to disagree with rather charming style of debate.

Ahh... the JKH defense - I figured it would show up somewhere. Sorry, MM, but it just doesn't fly. This defense leads to a world in which no one can say anything about behavior they consider inappropriate, because that makes them the same as the people behaving inappropriately. It is not inappropriate to call out inappropriate behavior. IMO, if you had one iota of civility about you, you actually would apologize for much of your behavior online. I don't suspect that will ever happen, because you have made it clear you feel you are acting perfectly appropriately, even "lovingly," as you mock and insult and name-call. How someone comes to that philosophy in life I do not understand - but I am familiar with the dynamic.

And, at this point, this has cycled around enough. I think my view has been adequately documented and expressed. I don't expect you to make on iota of change as a result, so continuing the discussion is pointless. Indeed, initiating the discussion was probably pointless. Enough said. I'll leave the last word to you.