Originally posted by Sparko
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Celebrated Australian atheist, political leader converts to Christianity at 85
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostSometimes you can't come to believe on a purely intellectual basis.
It takes something happening to you personally to wake you up to see the evidence that was there all along and understand it. That is not abandoning reason and logic. For me, I was an atheist who looked at all the evidence and always found ways to dismiss it, or tell myself "I am a good person, even if those Christians are right, God would never send me to hell so I will be fine no matter what" - Then my Dad had a stroke, my mom's church prayed over him and despite the doctor's saying he was going to die or be a vegetable, he recovered. Coincidence, right? could be. Then after he recovered he started going to Church, and got saved. Stopped drinking (he was an alcoholic) and became a new man. More coincidence? personality change due to stroke? maybe. But it got me to look at the whole religion thing in a different light. I was open to believing where before I automatically dismissed everything. I started going to church, and really listening and thinking about it and became convinced that it was true. All of it. I got saved. I didn't abandon reason and logic. I actually started using it to listen and understand rather than as a shield to block and deny. Afterwards I started studying more and deeper, and found that the more I looked into it, the more logic and reason confirmed my faith rather than undermined it. But without that emotional kick in the pants, I might never have even looked with an open mind.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe alternative is to believe on a subjective basis.
Personal testimony is no doubt important to you but it is not necessarily based upon reason and logic. It is based upon subjective feelings.
Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostMany atheists are former believers who were led away from their belief by reason and logic.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThat's kinda what I said, Tassy. sometimes subjective feelings and incidents can lead someone to believe. It pretty much did in my case. And THEN I started using reason and logic to see if what I believed was true or not. Before I had that subjective experience my mind was closed to even considering the idea of God. Kinda like yours is now. Maybe if God knocked you on your thick skull once you might open your eyes and see him.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIOW you arrived at your subjective beliefs first and then used reason and logic to prove they were true. Do you not see the dangers of confirmation bias here?
Pretty ironic you talking about confirmation bias. It's like you just read what you want to read.
The emotional kick in the pants got me into Church. Made me open to the idea of God. Something you probably need to happen to you.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostI could say the same about my experience with former atheists who become Christians.
I suspect most people (here, anyway) deconvert out of sheer laziness: once you've moved out of the house, mom and/or dad are no longer there to get you moving in the morning, and it's much easier to just sleep in on Sundays. Of course, those don't tend to turn into your typical angry internet atheist.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postsigh.
Pretty ironic you talking about confirmation bias. It's like you just read what you want to read.
The emotional kick in the pants got me into Church. Made me open to the idea of God. Something you probably need to happen to you.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWell, now we're back where we started, aren't we?
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