So Easy To Be An Atheist!

[carpedm9587]

See you are doing it again! And I am not trolling, just stating what follows from your worldview. You are an insignificant speck, on and insignificant planet, in a completely apathetic pitiless universe. But some how your, or our, moral musing have significance? Cognitive dissonance.

Oh horse hockey, Seer. Man up and own it. You love this topic and love to troll for responses from the nonchristians in the group.

And yes - I'm reading your mind...

[seer]

And yes - I'm reading your mind...

obviously...

[JimL]

You are an insignificant speck, on and insignificant planet, in a completely apathetic pitiless universe.

Correct. Hard to take isn't it? But if you think about it, from your perspective you are just as insignificant.

But some how your, or our, moral musing have significance? Cognitive dissonance.

Morals have significance to our lives as being individual members of the human community. Or we could just all disrespect and kill each other.

[seer]

Or we could just all disrespect and kill each other.

And so what if we do? We are all ultimately meaningless anyway... Just a bunch of ants running around...

[seer]

Not sure exactly where I "chided" you for using the expression "say so."

You said: Seer just likes to toss out the "say so" and "preference" as a mechanism for trivializing what is, for most of us, a fairly serious consideration...

[carpedm9587]

You said: Seer just likes to toss out the "say so" and "preference" as a mechanism for trivializing what is, for most of us, a fairly serious consideration...

That's what you do. Technique #2. You've been doing it for months. It doesn't seem to bother you - so why would you consider it "chiding?"

[seer]

That's what you do. Technique #2. You've been doing it for months. It doesn't seem to bother you - so why would you consider it "chiding?"

But why am I wrong if you agree that it is all based on say so? How is the truth trivializing?

[carpedm9587]

But why am I wrong if you agree that it is all based on say so? How is the truth trivializing?

You know the answer to that question already, Seer. It's been answered multiple times. I'm not going to get roped into another round of pointless debate when you have no argument. I'm sure you'll find a new "fish."

[Doug Shaver]

And so what if we do?

Then nothing will matter, because there will be no intelligent beings for anything to matter to.

We are all ultimately meaningless anyway... Just a bunch of ants running around...

No. That is a strawman argument. Naturalism does not deny that there are meaningful differences between ants and human beings. We have the kind of intelligence necessary to create meaning for ourselves, and so as long as we exist, our lives will have meaning.

[carpedm9587]

Then nothing will matter, because there will be no intelligent beings for anything to matter to.

No. That is a strawman argument. Naturalism does not deny that there are meaningful differences between ants and human beings. We have the kind of intelligence necessary to create meaning for ourselves, and so as long as we exist, our lives will have meaning.

The argument is that they don't have "absolute" or "eternal" value. Eventually all of the universe will end, taking with it all life. So we are "ultimately meaningless." It's true. I agree with you that meaning does not have to be eternal/absolute to be real. As long as a sentient mind exists, meaning will exist. When there is no sentient mind, there will be no "meaning." Creating a god to provide a sense of "absoluteness" will not change.

In other words, the Christian and the atheist will be in the same condition when death comes: non-existent. Having lived a life believing you are eternal with eternal meaning is not going to make it true.

[Tassman]

See you are doing it again! And I am not trolling, just stating what follows from your worldview. You are an insignificant speck, on and insignificant planet, in a completely apathetic pitiless universe.

We are ALL insignificant specks on a planet which is billions of years old circling a small yellow star on the edge of one of billions of galaxies in the universe, each comprising billions of stars.

But some how your, or our, moral musing have significance? Cognitive dissonance.

Moral musings grounded in scientific reality have more significance than those based on escapist religious fantasies.

[seer]

We are ALL insignificant specks on a planet which is billions of years old circling a small yellow star on the edge of one of billions of galaxies in the universe, each comprising billions of stars.

Moral musings grounded in scientific reality have more significance than those based on escapist religious fantasies.

What? You agree that we are insignificant specks then why on earth do our moral ideals have significance? Or do you have the fantasy that some how they have significance?

[seer]

No. That is a strawman argument. Naturalism does not deny that there are meaningful differences between ants and human beings. We have the kind of intelligence necessary to create meaning for ourselves, and so as long as we exist, our lives will have meaning.

Or we have the intelligence to realize that existential nihilism is the logical conclusion of atheism... No matter what meaning we make up in life.

[carpedm9587]

What? You agree that we are insignificant specks then why on earth do our moral ideals have significance?

They have significance to us because they impact our existence, in much the same way our children have significance to us because they impact our lives. They do not have "eternal" or "absolute" or "objective" significance because we will each one day die and cease to exist, so the significance will end at that point.

Or do you have the fantasy that some how they have significance?

It is not a fantasy - it is subject and temporal significance - which is still significance. It's simply not "absolute" or "eternal" significance.

When I look up "significance" I find the definitions:

"the quality of being worthy of attention; importance"

and

"the meaning to be found in words or events."

Nowhere in either definition is there any indication that significance has to be "permanent" or "eternal" or "objective" to be real.

[Doug Shaver]

Or we have the intelligence to realize that existential nihilism is the logical conclusion of atheism...

So say atheism's adversaries. It carries as much logical weight as the claim by non-Christians that tritheism is the logical conclusion of the doctrine of the Trinity.