Originally posted by Teallaura
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Atheism irrefutable.
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostA cause to be a cause is finite and temporal. An atemporal infinite cause in order to cause a thing in time would have to also be temporal.
Infinite would have to be modulated to finite to cause something finite.
An uncaused cause is both eternal and finite. Eternal in that it would have always been finite and temporal. The eternal Son of God was both not God being "with God" and God being that He "was God." John 1:1-2. And He is the uncaused cause in that anything made was not made apart from Him (John 1:3).
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostA cause to be a cause is finite and temporal. An atemporal infinite cause in order to cause a thing in time would have to also be temporal.
Infinite would have to be modulated to finite to cause something finite.
An uncaused cause is both eternal and finite. Eternal in that it would have always been finite and temporal. The eternal Son of God was both not God being "with God" and God being that He "was God." John 1:1-2. And He is the uncaused cause in that anything made was not made apart from Him (John 1:3).
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostHim? No. First I do not believe God is a Him. I am only arguing that Natural Law is possibly an eternal cause of cause and effect outcomes in our physical existence, which is a valid possibility.
Even funnier version occurs apparently in quantum gravity."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by crepuscule View PostMore unsupported assumptions. Why would an uncaused cause, eternal/finite or not, be God?
The uncaused Cause is a theist argument - since God is already stated to be eternal (per Scripture) He already fits these criteria.
I'm reminded of a physicist who, rather dejectedly, admitted that having climbed to the pinnacle of cosmology physics found theology already there (highly paraphrased)."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostDo you know of an actual non-temporal non-finite effect? As far as I know, finite and temporal effects are caused by a finite and temporal cause.
God would be a temporal.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt would be an atemporal cause not effected by Time. The ultimate natural law(s)s are not effected nor limited by time nor space. They always apply regardless time nor space.
God would be a temporal.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThat makes no sense. And you did not give any example of any non-temporal effect.
atemoral - independent of or unaffected by timeLast edited by shunyadragon; 07-31-2018, 04:25 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostWhy wouldn't it be?Shuny is making a similar line with the redressing he does - but it's now really necessary to redress naturalism to make it look like God - but not really be God.The uncaused Cause is a theist argument - since God is already stated to be eternal (per Scripture) He already fits these criteria.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe effects of Gravity are independent and not limited to place nor in time, and is an atemporal law of nature.
atemoral - independent of or unaffected by time. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostGravity is temporal. Having units of space, mass and time.
atemporal - independent of or unaffected by time
By definition you have to demonstrate how time effects gravity.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe effects of gravity have units in theory and are temporal (in time). Gravity is not a 'thing' and is in and of itself atemporal. Time does not effect gravity as defined.
atemporal - independent of or unaffected by time
By definition you have to demonstrate how time effects gravity.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostDoes mass increase in a gravitational field? m' = m / sqr( 1 - 2GM/(rc2))
The question is whether gravity is temporal or atemporal. The bottom line is gravity is into influenced nor effected by time. It is atemporal.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou tell me, your making up a trick question.
The question is whether gravity is temporal or atemporal. The bottom line is gravity is into influenced nor effected by time. It is atemporal.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, 04-22-2024, 06:28 PM
|
17 responses
104 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
04-23-2024, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 04-17-2024, 08:31 AM
|
70 responses
404 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 04-26-2024, 05:47 AM | ||
Started by whag, 04-09-2024, 01:04 PM
|
317 responses
1,405 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
Today, 07:19 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 02-04-2024, 05:06 AM
|
227 responses
1,114 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Today, 04:11 AM | ||
Started by whag, 01-18-2024, 01:35 PM
|
49 responses
370 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
05-15-2024, 02:53 PM
|
Comment