Originally posted by Starlight
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThere's no need to be coy, SL; your rebuttal is hardly convincing in its less than vigorous denial (of a caricature of a position I didn't state, no less). I've seen your Ph.D. thesis, but haven't gotten around to reading it yet. You indicated when I mentioned that earlier you didn't want that information released. Has that changed? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss in public.
Statements I have made about myself publicly on this forum are as far as I feel comfortable in going, and you can copy+paste those to anyone who has questions about me."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhich is how I feel about Dimbulb. He might have a doctorate, but after several years of debating him on tWeb, I have seen nothing to convince me that his intelligence is anything but average at best.
Dunning-Kruger much?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostWhy should I give any credence to the uneducated (and on the best arguments for Christian theism, the bulk of secular academics and scientists are uneducated) beliefs of 'experts' in unrelated fields?
So:
Might as well conduct a survey of botanists, primary school teachers, lawyers and firemen to decide if any of the theories of Quantum Physics are worth the paper they're written on.
Whereas the arguments for the existence of God are not well regarded even within philosophy departments. The vast majority of philosophy professors are atheists (there was a survey), yet they will have all studied the famous historical arguments in undergrad, or see some of them trotted out whenever a philosophy-of-religion student or professor gives a departmental seminar, so probably at least once a year they will see an argument presented in some form. Because such arguments are not highly-regarded even within philosophy departments, the rest of the university's academics will know nothing about them, just as failed historical physics theories never make it outside the physics department so most professors in other departments won't know what the 'luminiferous aether' is.
Few academics in secular disciplines at secular institutions believe in Christianity?
Your inane, classless and unprofessional post that I responded to is proof that you're not all that smart.
How could you actually demonstrate your claim to be true? Go through all the arguments individually and show how each one is "stupid" and how none of them are reasonable.
You aren't that smart or wise."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIn what field(s)?
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWe're simply going to disagree about this, then. When he's not emoting all over the place, he comes across as quite intelligent IMO; I'd say he's smarter than I am. You may just not be very adept at evaluating intelligence; I knew a brilliant lawyer who was convinced he'd been killed on the field at Gettysburg in a prior life.
However, he does generally write well with proper spelling and punctuation, which is why I judge that he is of average intelligence. Maybe he displays an excellent intellect when discussing his field, but that certainly doesn't carry over into the areas of philosophy, theology, religion, and politics.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostThis coming from the guy whom I once had to link multiple times to a document that had bullet points (about how the APA was adjusting its diagnoses and why) and you still didn't manage to have the reading comprehension to understand what the bullet point said.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIn general, like yourself I value my privacy, and would prefer nothing is said on this forum from private research about me. Though, honestly, why you or anyone else would find me all that interesting baffles me somewhat, and I can assure you that PhD theses are incredibly boring in general and mine is not at all an exception to that rule. I'm neither a public figure nor have led a particularly interesting life beyond being a geek and spending most of my adult life at university.
Statements I have made about myself publicly on this forum are as far as I feel comfortable in going, and you can copy+paste those to anyone who has questions about me.
I read PhD theses because I am also an inveterate geek and find them interesting. I take it as a personal challenge to see how much of the material I can wrap my brain around. I'll probably get around to reading your book, too.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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There is no reason to pretend that Starlight is stupid because he's on "the other side". That clearly is not the case, though I do find it amusing that he's one of two TWebbers who brags of extreme intelligence, along with Darth Executor."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThere is no reason to pretend that Starlight is stupid because he's on "the other side". That clearly is not the case, though I do find it amusing that he's one of two TWebbers who brags of extreme intelligence, along with Darth Executor.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThere is no reason to pretend that Starlight is stupid because he's on "the other side". That clearly is not the case, though I do find it amusing that he's one of two TWebbers who brags of extreme intelligence, along with Darth Executor.
Honestly I get told I'm stupid here on such a constant basis - it's not unusual to see multiple posts per page alleging that I'm stupid - that I usually do feel a little push-back is in order. Alleging that I'm stupid seems to be the go-to for some posters here when they can't address the substance of the arguments being made.
Do I have an overly-high opinion of my own abilities? Sure. Most people generally do. Am I an egotistical jerk? Totally. Am I stupid though? Hardly. So it's weird and amusing to see how often the "you're stupid!" gets trotted out here."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThere is no reason to pretend that Starlight is stupid because he's on "the other side". That clearly is not the case, though I do find it amusing that he's one of two TWebbers who brags of extreme intelligence, along with Darth Executor.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI always thought of him as one of the more intelligent, albeit more misguided, Twebbers.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostWell D.E. is obviously the 2nd most intelligent TWebber.
Honestly I get told I'm stupid here on such a constant basis - it's not unusual to see multiple posts per page alleging that I'm stupid - that I usually do feel a little push-back is in order. Alleging that I'm stupid seems to be the go-to for some posters here when they can't address the substance of the arguments being made.
Do I have an overly-high opinion of my own abilities? Sure. Most people generally do. Am I an egotistical jerk? Totally. Am I stupid though? Hardly. So it's weird and amusing to see how often the "you're stupid!" gets trotted out here.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou may not be stupid, but some of the arguments you've presented, especially against Christianity certainly are.Last edited by Starlight; 04-16-2018, 07:37 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWe can ask "To what extent do the scientists and academics in our world typically take seriously any particular argument regarding the existence of God?"
Is there, for example, some well known argument that is acknowledged by all modern thinkers to be utterly compelling, such that it is taught to every student in high school as a matter of course? No.
Is there perhaps an argument that is perhaps 50-50 such that it is continually debated by all thinking men throughout the world, and all scientists give thought to daily? No.
Is there perhaps an argument that's widely regarded to have about a 10% chance of being right, such that a lot of people give it a heap of credence and so it is widely known? Not really.
Also, regardless of their validity, trying to teach any argument in favor of a religion in public high school would get you in immediate trouble with groups like the ACLU.
The simple fact is that modern scientists, intellectuals, academics, etc don't consider any of the major apologetic 'arguments' for the truth of Christianity to be worth any particularly serious level of consideration. The only place they are even mentioned in a modern university are in courses labelled "philosophy of religion" where the lecturer will explain to the students the ontological argument, cosmological argument, pascal's wager, the argument from design etc, not because the lecturer considers those remotely compelling or expects the students to do so, but because those are some identifiable historical arguments that were made by certain Christian intellectuals at the time.
With regard to this sort of thing, it's worth noting that over the 20th century the average IQ massively increased (this observation is known as the Flynn Effect), and this has been attributed to everything from better nutrition to better schooling. A 'very smart' person by today's standards would run circles around historical thinkers who were judged 'very smart' in their own societies. Since I have a PhD in a science field I would estimate that it is probable that I am smarter than even the greatest historical Christian thinkers and probably by a significant margin.
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