Originally posted by Roy
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Nobody Dies for a Lie
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe does in Acts 1 as I already posted to you twice now.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostYou mean this bit, which does not list James brother of Jesus among those who returned from the ascension, saying only that Jesus's brothers were among those that prayed together after the apostles returned?
1. James is a brother of Jesus so he would have been there.
2. It shows that Mary and Jesus' brothers were part of the group and believed because they were praying.
3. Jesus was running around for 40 days after his resurrection. It doesn't make a lick of sense for you to propose that during all that time they didn't see or talk to him, and just appeared out of nowhere to pray after his ascension.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostYou're reading into my words something that I don't think is there, and wasn't intended.But was he an eyewitness to Jesus post-resurrection? There's nothing in Luke to suggest that, unless he was one of "the eleven and those with them" in Luke 24:33; and Acts implies that Mary and the brothers of Jesus weren't at the ascension. The only explicit mention of James meeting Jesus post-resurrection is from Paul, who doesn't say which James he's referring to.
If James b.o. Jesus did see Jesus post-resurrection, it's odd that Luke, who met him James personally, never mentions it.
Acts only explicitly mentions the apostles before/during the ascension, and only subsequently adds that Mary and Jesus' brothers habitually gathered at the same spot. However, Luke 24 indicates that more than the apostles were gathered together when Jesus appeared to them post-resurrection - so it's more than possible that they were present then, too. Also, John 20 implies that the group, even before the ascension, contained more than just the (11) apostles.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou mean this bit, which does not list James brother of Jesus among those who returned from the ascension, saying only that Jesus's brothers were among those that prayed together after the apostles returned?
1. James is a brother of Jesus so he would have been there.
2. It shows that Mary and Jesus' brothers were part of the group and believed because they were praying.
3. Jesus was running around for 40 days after his resurrection. It doesn't make a lick of sense for you to propose that during all that time they didn't see or talk to him, and just appeared out of nowhere to pray after his ascension.
Luke does not mention that James b.o.J. met the risen Jesus. That's your inference.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI'm not sure that Luke had occasion to mention it; he certainly wasn't writing an exhaustive account. Paul identifies James as the Lord's brother in Gal. 1:19 (generally considered one of his earliest epistles), and mentions him twice more in Galatians without the appellation. He also mentions James (without the appellation) having encountered Jesus post-resurrection in 1 Corinthians. Odds are at least good that it's not another James.
Acts only explicitly mentions the apostles before/during the ascension, and only subsequently adds that Mary and Jesus' brothers habitually gathered at the same spot. However, Luke 24 indicates that more than the apostles were gathered together when Jesus appeared to them post-resurrection - so it's more than possible that they were present then, too. Also, John 20 implies that the group, even before the ascension, contained more than just the (11) apostles.
The accounts vary and occasionally contradict, and it's clear that the tale grew and changed over time, and that the earliest gospel was altered to fit the later ones. We know that the gospel texts themselves were changed and harmonized. This is particularly true of the post-resurrection appearance passages.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostSo your claim is that Luke mentions that James b.o.J. met the risen Jesus because Luke says Jesus's brothers were around after the ascension.
Luke does not mention that James b.o.J. met the risen Jesus. That's your inference.
Do you think they just showed up out of the blue after Jesus died and the apostles said "oh yeah by the way we saw Jesus just now. No, sorry you can't see him, he went back to heaven. But yeah you should totally believe us and wait here in the upper room praying"
Jesus walked around for 40 days showing himself to people. Do you think if he did not, the apostles would be able to convince his own mother and family he did without them seeing him? Please.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIt is a pretty logical inference. Why else would James and Mary et al BE at the upper room praying after the ascension if they didn't believe? And why would they believe if they didn't meed the risen Christ?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostYou do, Sparko.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf I were there and he was my family member, I would not believe unless I met him risen. I believe by faith and having seen Jesus work in my life. They would have witnessed him die on the cross and have no reason for faith unless they saw him risen. None of the apostles would either.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostAnd they who were closest to him didn't believe until supposedly seeing it with their own eyes, but the rest of us are just supposed to believe them.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf I were there and he was my family member, I would not believe unless I met him risen. I believe by faith and having seen Jesus work in my life. They would have witnessed him die on the cross and have no reason for faith unless they saw him risen. None of the apostles would either.
I'm beginning to wonder whether y'all actually read your bible, what with this, and seer forgetting there were two apostles named James, and Teallaura mixing up Luke's and Matthew's accounts of Judas's death.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostWe call it faith. And we have more evidence than just their word for it. At least I do. I have seen Jesus work in my life and in the lives of my family.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostLuke says otherwise:Though maybe you've been seduced by the extra verses added on the end of Mark.
I'm beginning to wonder whether y'all actually read your bible, what with this, and seer forgetting there were two apostles named James, and Teallaura mixing up Luke's and Matthew's accounts of Judas's death.Last edited by Sparko; 04-27-2018, 02:08 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostAnd the apostles hadn't had more evidence than just some-one's word? All those miracles of water-walking and healing and fish-multiplying and transmutation and so on weren't more evidence? You think you have more evidence than they did???
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, 04-09-2024, 01:04 PM
|
461 responses
2,056 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Diogenes
Today, 04:17 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 02-04-2024, 05:06 AM
|
254 responses
1,230 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 05-22-2024, 12:21 PM | ||
Started by whag, 01-18-2024, 01:35 PM
|
49 responses
373 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
05-15-2024, 02:53 PM
|
Comment