Which Would You Personally Prefer...

[JimL]

Let me state it this way. There are three entities who are one entity And that one entity is not three entities. It is like a one way street.
The trinitarian Van Til taught three persons who are the one God and also taught God to be one person. Van Til is not a modalist. I will state it this way, God the Father. The Son who is God with the Father is the Son of God. The Holy Spirit is what God is. And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ and His own person.

You probably shouldn't have stated it that way, it sounds even crazier and a mangling of logic when you try to explain it.

Tritheism is a denial that there is only one God.
Modalism is a denial that there are three distinct Persons who are equally God.
Arianiam denies the Son of God is true God with the Father and that the Holy Spirit is a person.

Oh what a mangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive ourselves.

Trinity is the name of the correct theological understanding that there are three persons who are equally God and that there is only one God.

We all know what the Trinity is meant to depict. The problem is that it doesn't make a lick of sense. It's Christianity trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

[37818]

You probably shouldn't have stated it that way, it sounds even crazier and a mangling of logic when you try to explain it.

Just state what you think is the contradiction. Be specific.

Oh what a mangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive ourselves.

Error is a denial of truth. What truth do you think that the Trinity explanation denies? Be specific.

We all know what the Trinity is meant to depict. The problem is that it doesn't make a lick of sense. It's Christianity trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

What do you understand the Trinity to claim?

[JimL]

Just state what you think is the contradiction. Be specific.

Who said anything about a contradiction? I said it is mangled logic. Take your first sentence for example: "There are 3 entities who are 1 entity. And that 1 entity is not 3 entities."

Error is a denial of truth. What truth do you think that the Trinity explanation denies? Be specific.

It denies the fact that 3 persons can not be 1 person, that 3 minds can not be 1 mind.

What do you understand the Trinity to claim?

That there a 3 persons who are 1 person, and that that one person is not 3 persons.

[Tassman]

John is regarded as an eye witness. It is generally accepted that he wrote his account after 70 CE.

John is NOT

Nonsense. The apostolic authority are the Holy Scriptures not the churches which spring from them.

when it was given

No. God is the one who gives the new birth (John 1:13) to persons. And those who refuse to know God are the ones whose name will not be found in His "book."

[Tassman]

Just state what you think is the contradiction. Be specific.

Is god three or is he one? He can't be both without contradiction. This is why the 'Trinity' dogma has always been glossed over as a "divine mystery. For "mystery" read "contradiction".

Error is a denial of truth.

No, "error" is the holding of mistaken opinions or facts.

What truth do you think that the Trinity explanation denies? Be specific.

What do you understand the Trinity to claim?

That the three persons of the Trinity are in fact one person. In short a direct contradiction.

[Sparko]

Just state what you think is the contradiction. Be specific.
Error is a denial of truth. What truth do you think that the Trinity explanation denies? Be specific.
What do you understand the Trinity to claim?

You probably shouldn't be the one trying to explain the trinity to atheists since your idea of the Trinity is unorthodox to begin with.

[37818]

You probably shouldn't be the one trying to explain the trinity to atheists since your idea of the Trinity is unorthodox to begin with.

So the Bible is unorthodox.

Dr Walter Martin did not believe that the Logos, the second Person of the Trinity, was always the Son. He became the Son in the incarnation. I believe that He was always the Son. Our disagreement is not on the Trinity being three Persons and being the One God. It is on the Biblical Christology of the preincarnate Christ.

[Sparko]

So the Bible is unorthodox.

Dr Walter Martin did not believe that the Logos, the second Person of the Trinity, was always the Son. He became the Son in the incarnation. I believe that He was always the Son. Our disagreement is not on the Trinity being three Persons and being the One God. It is on the Biblical Christology of the preincarnate Christ.

Your whole "3 entities who are 1 entity" is confusing and incorrect. It is 3 distinct persons who are one God.

[37818]

Your whole "3 entities who are 1 entity" is confusing and incorrect. It is 3 distinct persons who are one God.

Look up the meaning of entity. There are three Persons, are the three Persons three entities? Without question, God is one entity.

Van Til held the Trinity was the three Persons and against Sabellianism and Arianism. But also stated God to be a Person. [God is Biblically the Person, the Father.]

[Sparko]

Look up the meaning of entity. There are three Persons, are the three Persons three entities? Without question, God is one entity.

Van Til held the Trinity was the three Persons and against Sabellianism and Arianism. But also stated God to be a Person. [God is Biblically the Person, the Father.]

No they are one entity: God.

[JimL]

No they are one entity: God.

You're being just as illogical, Sparko. They is plural, meaning more than one.

[Sparko]

You're being just as illogical, Sparko. They is plural, meaning more than one.

they are plural persons not entities. God is one God revealed in three distinct persons. Each person is fully God. One God, not three.

[JimL]

they are plural persons not entities. God is one God revealed in three distinct persons. Each person is fully God. One God, not three.

Like I said, your logic is as mangled as 37818's logic.

[Sparko]

Like I said, your logic is as mangled as 37818's logic.

No it isn't because there is no contradiction like in 37818's statement. 'Persons' are a different class than 'God'

[37818]

<snip> they are one entity: God.

Yes.