Originally posted by 37818
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostOn the contrary, if other Christians and I know God, and so in turn would also know the words were given by God. Other Christians and I do know God. So why do you not? You said you do not believe it. But why? You have argued what you called a lack of substantive evidence. Yet you have that lack of substantive evidence because you have in turn denied each piece of substantive evidence. So you effectively do not have any.
Well?
Uncaused existence which is the identity of God. [There could never have been nothingness. Or there could never be anything.]
The universe which is evidence of cause.
Information found in this universe which is evidence of intelligence. [Like DNA. The laws of logic.]
A human history written, claiming to be from God, and given to men to have written it.
Other humans today claiming to know this God.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAll adherents of all religions claim to know their god. There is no good reason to believe any of them. As for your list of substantive evidence it is no such thing. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostI don't need to know that. I have no obligation to believe anything just because I can't prove it isn't true. If you say it is true, the obligation is on you to give me a good enough reason to think it is true. Until you can do that, I'm justified in not believing it.
God has been identified as uncaused Existence.
The universe is evidence of cause.
The Hebrew-Christian writings have real historical elements.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, well, what you're doing in the above is quoting the bible in order to refute the charge that I made about the bible. That doesn't work. In other words you're telling me that the bible is of the holy spirit, because it is written in the bible that it is of the holy spirit.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSo? If what the text claims is trute, your problem with it is yours, and anyone else who choose not to believe it. If the text is not true, the problem falls on all who think it is true.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostReally? Which of them besides the Hebrew-Christian writings have actual historical elements which can be verified with actual history?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell of course, but the original point being made was that there was no substantive reason to believe that the bible is the word of god, rather than the words of men. You're response to that was to say, well, the bible says that the bible is the word of god. That's a ridiculous defense of your position. I believe that is what's called a circular argument.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNone! Neither can the OT. Comparative mythology provides historical and cross-cultural perspectives for Jewish mythology. The sources behind the Genesis creation narrative and flood etc heavily borrowed themes from Mesopotamian mythology. As well, mainstream history and archaeology consider the Exodus never to have happened, and the story to be an entirely fictional narrative (including the existence of Moses) put together between the 8th and 5th centuries BCE. There is a lot more that cannot be verified.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostJesus is attributed to have made an interesting argument. How will you refute it? He argued, ". . . If any man will do His [God's] will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. . . ." John 7:17 and context.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSo, Jesus wasn't speaking for himself, he was speaking for god?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by JimL View PostHmm, interesting, and here I had always been under the impression that christians believed that Jesus is god.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostHmm, interesting, and here I had always been under the impression that christians believed that Jesus is god.
https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
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