Do you believe in zombies?

[Adrift]

Um, I think he's partially correct here - as Rogue pointed out, he has it backwards. But I think he's right that there is such a tradition - sorry, zombie lore hasn't been a study of mine... yet...

Hmm. I don't know. Wikipedia states the following:

"The zombie belief has its roots in traditions brought to Haiti by enslaved Africans, and their subsequent experiences in the New World. It was thought that the voodoo deity Baron Samedi would gather them from their grave to bring them to a heavenly afterlife in Africa ("Guinea"), unless they had offended him in some way, in which case they would be forever a slave after death, as a zombie. A zombie could also be saved by feeding them salt. A number of scholars have pointed out the significance of the zombie figure as a metaphor for the history of slavery in Haiti."

Sounds rather negative to me. Assuming JimL is using Wikipedia as a source, the source of the the zombie concept isn't being brought to a heavenly afterlife in Africa, but the actual enslavement after death for offending Baron Samedi. The source for the Wikipedia quote is a New York Times article called "A Zombie Is a Slave Forever" and it says,



It does sound like what roque was saying, but seems the very opposite of what JimL was proposing.

[Cow Poke]

It does sound like what roque was saying, but seems the very opposite of what JimL was proposing.

Let's see... credibility... Rogue.. JimL...

[Tassman]

False religion doesn't care about the people, just the control, as CP said.

[Cow Poke]

Yet, here you are, spewing forth your anti-Christian rantings with impunity on a site owned by Christians. Somebody outta get the comfy chair!

tt13.jpg

[Teallaura]

A house divided against itself..............

False religion doesn't care about the people, just the control, as CP said.

That wasn't what I was asking - what mindset starves the baby to avoid demonic influence but accepts demonic forces remaining in their own bodies? I see CP's point about the politics - I don't get why that works when it's danged near contradictory.

[Teallaura]

Hmm. I don't know. Wikipedia states the following:

"The zombie belief has its roots in traditions brought to Haiti by enslaved Africans, and their subsequent experiences in the New World. It was thought that the voodoo deity Baron Samedi would gather them from their grave to bring them to a heavenly afterlife in Africa ("Guinea"), unless they had offended him in some way, in which case they would be forever a slave after death, as a zombie. A zombie could also be saved by feeding them salt. A number of scholars have pointed out the significance of the zombie figure as a metaphor for the history of slavery in Haiti."

Sounds rather negative to me. Assuming JimL is using Wikipedia as a source, the source of the the zombie concept isn't being brought to a heavenly afterlife in Africa, but the actual enslavement after death for offending Baron Samedi. The source for the Wikipedia quote is a New York Times article called "A Zombie Is a Slave Forever" and it says,



It does sound like what roque was saying, but seems the very opposite of what JimL was proposing.

Um, yeah - like I said, Jim has it backwards but the basic premise about how the tradition began is correct.

Originally Posted by JimL
That's some of the Haitian folklore and your movie version of zombies, it's not the original meaning of the term. The original meaning of the term came from the African slaves in Haiti who believed that their god would come after they died, gather them up from their graves, and bring them to live a heavenly afterlife in Africa. In otherwords, resurrect them.

Now, he goes further and concludes this is a form of resurrection - I wouldn't agree but there is a different view of the term clearly in use so while I don't agree, I see where he has a point and is at least partially correct. This seems to me that he's confusing those who get to go to Heaven/Africa with the condemned that became zombies/slaves but as he has the former in use, I can't see that it is blasphemous.

But if he ever uses zombie in a thread title again, I'm gonna mail him a case of kitty poop...

[Tassman]

Yet, here you are, spewing forth your anti-Christian rantings with impunity on a site owned by Christians. Somebody outta get the comfy chair!

[tabibito]

I believe it says that the saints were resurrected prior to Jesus, they didn't come out of their graves, or tombs if you like, until after Jesus resurrection.

If division of the passage into two sentences were correct, it would be possible.

Matthew has written an aside in this passage, but it will take time to complete a textual analysis, and then compare my findings with secondary sources (peer reviewed scholarly discourses) to see what I missed. I also have to consider how the answer might impact on assignment submissions for my next round of Uni subjects, which includes the synoptic gospels.

[JimL]

IIRC the term described those who would not be taken to heaven but would be forced to mindlessly slave away for eternity.

Yes, but they are not the flesh eating mindless beings as portrayed in the movies, they are the dead and buried having been resurrected just as they are in christianity. The only difference is that the good resurrected go on to live a heavenly existence and the others go on to live in eternal slavery.

[JimL]

The saddest thing, though, is that we worked a clinic while we were there, and mothers would bring their weak and dying babies to the clinic. In many cases, it was just hydration that they needed, because mothers were told by the witch doctors that evil spirits were in their breast milk, and they couldn't nurse their babies without transferring the demons.

I didn't see any zombies in Haiti when I was there, but I sure heard stories from people who claimed that they did.

I agree, it's a terrible thing to convince naive people that demons occupy their bodies.

[JimL]

Um, why didn't they get the witch doctor's to just drive out the demons? Surely 'leave demons in your body' wasn't their first plan?

My guess is that they probably did drive out demons, but demons can always return, if they didn't then the witch doctors would be out of business.

[Catholicity]

I agree, it's a terrible thing to convince naive people that demons occupy their bodies.

Haiti is rooted in the idea of posession and channeling spirits. and you sat there and made a rotten argument for what? when children need attachment fluid understand how to nurse etc, yet Haiti remains convinced that natural occurrences are connected to hexes evil spirits and so forth. I suggest you take a look at how its done.

[JimL]

If division of the passage into two sentences were correct, it would be possible.

Matthew has written an aside in this passage, but it will take time to complete a textual analysis, and then compare my findings with secondary sources (peer reviewed scholarly discourses) to see what I missed. I also have to consider how the answer might impact on assignment submissions for my next round of Uni subjects, which includes the synoptic gospels.

According to my reading of the texts the saints were resurrected when Jesus died, prior even to his burial. Apparently they didn't come out of their graves/tombs until a second earthquake when Jesus himself resurrected. I just wonder why it apparently took 3 days for Jesus to resurrect. But one of the main questions I had in all of this is, do christians believe that their physical bodies will be resurrected like the saints and Jesus, or is it just a spiritual resurrection. This passage would suggest it is physical and I have yet to actually have seen anyone physically emerge from their grave. Do ya'll think we will all pop up at once at the judgement time or something like that.

[Cow Poke]

According to my reading of the texts the saints were resurrected when Jesus died, prior even to his burial.

Could you please provide this "text"? Thanks.

[Cow Poke]

Try addressing the issue for a change instead of whining.

Noting that you have the freedom on a Christian run website to spew forth your anti-Christian rantings is "whining?" What a drama queen.