To what extent can ethics be anchored in reason?

[seer]

I made the assumption due to the change in your tone: "double standard," "oh please" - etc.

If that was in error - my apologies for misunderstanding your tone. Text does not lend itself well to conveying emotional content.

Right, didn't you recently accuse me of trolling? I did not see that as a slight... Though to be honest I do see your worldview as logically leading to utter hopelessness and existential nihilism...

[seer]

Just as I KNOW you see me as a good person, from the perspective of YOUR norms...

Your heart is in the right place even if your mind isn't. BTW have you ever read C.S. Lewis' "Surprised By Joy?" It is a partial autobiography, and rather insightful - in my humble opinion.

[carpedm9587]

Right, didn't you recently accuse me of trolling? I did not see that as a slight... Though to be honest I do see your worldview as logically leading to utter hopelessness and existential nihilism...

No, I didn't accuse. If it came across that way, I apologize. I asked a question about the reason for the original post because of the turn the conversation was taking. I have to admit that I considered the possibility that you were. However, I cannot judge if you're trolling or not; only you can do that. I should note that our exchange since suggests to me that you are not.

As for my worldview leading to "hopelessness," I get that a lot around here (and from my other Christian friends). As I explore why people think that, I find it comes from a place of not recognizing purpose as "valid" in any other context that universal and, frankly, eternal.

I'm not limited to that, so I do not find the worldview hopeless and it does not lead me to nihilism.

I think you might be back in that binary way of thinking again...

[carpedm9587]

Your heart is in the right place even if your mind isn't. BTW have you ever read C.S. Lewis' "Surprised By Joy?" It is a partial autobiography, and rather insightful - in my humble opinion.

Years and years ago, along with his Narnia parable, A Grief Observed, and his apologetic work (I'm blanking on the name - "Just Christianity" or something?).

And, interestingly, I have the same assessment of you.

[seer]

Years and years ago, along with his Narnia parable, A Grief Observed, and his apologetic work (I'm blanking on the name - "Just Christianity" or something?).

And, interestingly, I have the same assessment of you.

Then I would suggest Surprised By Joy, it is not really an Apologetic like Mere Christianity, but there were somethings in that book that struck me in a way that most apologetics didn't.

[seer]

As for my worldview leading to "hopelessness," I get that a lot around here (and from my other Christian friends). As I explore why people think that, I find it comes from a place of not recognizing purpose as "valid" in any other context that universal and, frankly, eternal.

I'm not limited to that, so I do not find the worldview hopeless and it does not lead me to nihilism.

I'm not sure how you can escape existential nihilism by definition:

Existential nihilism: the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_nihilism

What would you disagree with here?

[carpedm9587]

I'm not sure how you can escape existential nihilism by definition:

What would you disagree with here?

If that were ALL Existential Nihilism was, I would agree 100%. However, you left off the rest:

Existential nihilism is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence.

The emphasis is mine. This is why I do not apply the term "existential nihilist" to myself.

[carpedm9587]

Then I would suggest Surprised By Joy, it is not really an Apologetic like Mere Christianity, but there were somethings in that book that struck me in a way that most apologetics didn't.

I will add it to my Kindle line-up.

I would add "right after '50 Shades of Grey,' " but that really WOULD be trolling...

(BTW - as a fan of Lewis, are you familiar with the Inklings?)

[Roy]

I suspect that you would follow the PC crowd - where ever it leads...

A member of the majority religion thinks a member of a minority would follow the crowd.

[carpedm9587]

A member of the majority religion thinks a member of a minority would follow the crowd.

I'm not sure that is what Seer was saying, Roy. I think he just took "likely to" a bit too far and made it sound like an absolute. He would be correct that the odds I would have that mindset are high. They simply are not certain. In his words, it is not "necessary."

That being said, I suspect it is a view he is inclined to hold as part of a binary way of looking at things. In my experience, binary thinking is common in religious groups. It is a function of the worldview. Unfortunately, it tends to lead to false dichotomies.

No insult intended, Seer. It is merely an outside observation about a belief set. I suspect you have more than a few observations about the atheist and/or agnostic belief set.

[seer]

I will add it to my Kindle line-up.

I would add "right after '50 Shades of Grey,' " but that really WOULD be trolling...

You really wouldn't read 50 Shades - would you?

(BTW - as a fan of Lewis, are you familiar with the Inklings?)

Yes, of course.

[seer]

If that were ALL Existential Nihilism was, I would agree 100%. However, you left off the rest:

Existential nihilism is the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence.

The emphasis is mine. This is why I do not apply the term "existential nihilist" to myself.

I'm not sure why you would disagree with this either. If life has no intrinsic meaning or value how would the human species be significant? In what way would anything we do effect the totality of existence? If humanity was wiped out tomorrow what would it matter?

[seer]

I'm not sure that is what Seer was saying, Roy. I think he just took "likely to" a bit too far and made it sound like an absolute. He would be correct that the odds I would have that mindset are high. They simply are not certain. In his words, it is not "necessary."

That being said, I suspect it is a view he is inclined to hold as part of a binary way of looking at things. In my experience, binary thinking is common in religious groups. It is a function of the worldview. Unfortunately, it tends to lead to false dichotomies.

No insult intended, Seer. It is merely an outside observation about a belief set. I suspect you have more than a few observations about the atheist and/or agnostic belief set.

Carp, are you telling me your thinking is not binary when it comes to your ethical beliefs? I have not seen anything but in my discussion with you.

[carpedm9587]

Carp, are you telling me your thinking is not binary when it comes to your ethical beliefs? I have not seen anything but in my discussion with you.

I'm not sure exactly how you see my thinking as "binary." You'll have to explain.

[seer]

I'm not sure exactly how you see my thinking as "binary." You'll have to explain.

I did, concerning you ethical beliefs. It is all subjective and relative - and nothing else.