Morality or Obedience?

[Jedidiah]

Well that's just silly Jed. There was recently a thread discussing whether or not Thomas Jefferson was a christian or not, and though he implied that he was in a sense a christian, I said that no he wasn't a christian. So, you're wrong. Christians don't all believe the same things, so when Sparko says Christians are the majority of the western civilization, and so their morality is the only one that counts, it doesn't mean very much, because christians don't all agree on what is moral and what is not, just like Thomas Jefferson didn't agree with much that was in the bible.

And I called you on the same dishonesty in that thread.

[Tassman]

They do Tassy. Christians are the majority of the western civilization and so our morality is only one that counts.

[JimL]

And I called you on the same dishonesty in that thread.

Jed, I was consistent in both cases. I said that Thomas Jefferson was not a christian and similarly I said that not all people who claim to be christians are actually christians in the sense that they hold to the same moral principles. Jefferson wasn't a christian because to him Jesus was not christ, was not god. But here we were talking christian morality, not a belief in christ, and my point is that not all christians hold to the same morality. So again, when Sparko said that christian morality is all that counts, he's not speaking for all christians. Thats the point I was making. Now, you should give yourself a warning for calling me a liar. Having an opinion that differs from your own does not a liar make.

[Sparko]

Depends on who you are calling Christians, most Christians are christian in name only and couldn't give a damn what the church thinks. How many christians do you suppose are pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, etc.?

As you are just another immoral deviant, anything you say is suspect and can be ignored by the majority of decent moral people like myself.

This idea of majority social moralism is great.

[Sparko]

I don't really care what a moral degenerate like you thinks or prefers because you are the immoral minority. Only the morals that the bible teaches count because society is overwhelmingly Christian. Even the Hindus, Muslims, and Jews agree on most of the morals that Christianity do. And since atheists like yourself are less than 10% of the population, your ideas of morality don't count. According to your and JimL's own standards even. Thanks.

[JimL]

As you are just another immoral deviant, anything you say is suspect and can be ignored by the majority of decent moral people like myself.

This idea of majority social moralism is great.

So you've resorted to the childish behavior of covering your ears and shouting nah, nah, nah, nah. The point you don't get is that religion is only tool of enforcement, you know, gods gonna get you if your bad, or reward you if your good. Athiests in general hold to the same moral principles as do religious people, it's just that they don't need the idea in their head that god is always watching them in order that they do the right thing.

[Sparko]

So you've resorted to the childish behavior of covering your ears and shouting nah, nah, nah, nah. The point you don't get is that religion is only tool of enforcement, you know, gods gonna get you if your bad, or reward you if your good. Athiests in general hold to the same moral principles as do religious people, it's just that they don't need the idea in their head that god is always watching them in order that they do the right thing.

JimL I am only going by YOUR standard of morality. I can't help it if you are now seeing the flaw in your own system, you moral degenerate. There is no right or wrong except what the majority decides. Since you are in the minority that makes you evil.

[JimL]

JimL I am only going by YOUR standard of morality. I can't help it if you are now seeing the flaw in your own system, you moral degenerate. There is no right or wrong except what the majority decides. Since you are in the minority that makes you evil.

Well of course you're just being silly. But if thats the game you want to play, the question then becomes, which christians are right and which are wrong in their moral stances?

[Sparko]

Well of course you're just being silly. But if thats the game you want to play, the question then becomes, which christians are right and which are wrong in their moral stances?

The majority of course.

[JimL]

The majority of course.

Ha, there is no majority that agrees with each and every moral issue.

[Sparko]

Ha, there is no majority that agrees with each and every moral issue.

Well then each issue is determined by it's own majority. duh.

[JimL]

Well then each issue is determined by it's own majority. duh.

Exactly my point. So your original assertion about majority christian morality in western civilization being the only thing that counts made no sense.

[Sparko]

Exactly my point. So your original assertion about majority christian morality in western civilization being the only thing that counts made no sense.

Christians agree on most morals though Jim. We even agree with Jews, Hindus and Muslims on most issues. Such as abortion is immoral. Stealing is immoral. Murder is immoral. Homosexuality is immoral. Being an atheist is immoral.

Sure there are a minority of liberal Christians who might disagree, but they don't count because they are the minority. see?

Of course as an immoral basket of deporables, Atheists cannot grasp that they are evil incarnate.

[Christianbookworm]

Christians agree on most morals though Jim. We even agree with Jews, Hindus and Muslims on most issues. Such as abortion is immoral. Stealing is immoral. Murder is immoral. Homosexuality is immoral. Being an atheist is immoral.

Sure there are a minority of liberal Christians who might disagree, but they don't count because they are the minority. see?

Of course as an immoral basket of deporables, Atheists cannot grasp that they are evil incarnate.

It's hilarious that the ad populum fallacy isn't of any help to atheists.

[Jedidiah]

Jed, I was consistent in both cases. I said that Thomas Jefferson was not a christian and similarly I said that not all people who claim to be christians are actually christians in the sense that they hold to the same moral principles. Jefferson wasn't a christian because to him Jesus was not christ, was not god. But here we were talking christian morality, not a belief in christ, and my point is that not all christians hold to the same morality. So again, when Sparko said that christian morality is all that counts, he's not speaking for all christians. Thats the point I was making. Now, you should give yourself a warning for calling me a liar. Having an opinion that differs from your own does not a liar make.

You were consistent in those two cases because it served your ends. I will drop this because I am not willing to go through your past swill to show where you have claimed just the opposite.