Originally posted by element771
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Last edited by seer; 03-16-2018, 06:58 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut you are not departing this earth, you are just in the ground. And Paul did not just say he would depart, but to depart and be WITH CHRIST.
Originally posted by seer View PostBTW element, do you believe that God is material or immaterial?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThey do if they believe the lies of other people or if they believe their own lies.
You can't just make up your own definition for words. Words actually mean something.
A liar is one who lies and a lie is an an intentionally false statement.
If they believe the lies of other people or believe their own lies, then they are not liars by definintion. They are deluded or wrong but they are not liars.
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Originally posted by element771 View PostI am departing the fallen earth and waking up in the remade earth with Christ or departing from this life to arrive in my new life with Christ
"I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things."
In other words Peter equates death with putting off his body.
immaterialLast edited by seer; 03-16-2018, 09:11 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostIt doesn't seem that Paul sees any lag time between dying or departing and being with Christ. Or as Peter said:
"I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me. And I will make every effort so that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things."
In other words Peter equates death with putting off his body.
1. I still think that this describes what it will be like to shed our earthly body for our resurrection body.
2. I equate it to going to sleep. When it is time to wake up, it feels like almost no time has passed. I think this is what one hopes. I will die and waking up with Christ will feel immediate.
3. I think these interpretations make it seem that the body is inherently bad which sounds too gnostic for me. Do you not believe that the resurrection is a physical one?
Originally posted by seer View PostSo being made in His image there may be something immaterial in man?
I think being made in his image is our ability to reason, our urge to create, and our ability to ponder our very existence. I think that this is what separates us from other animals...not a soul.
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Originally posted by element771 View PostI am departing the fallen earth and waking up in the remade earth with Christ or departing from this life to arrive in my new life with Christ.
immaterial
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Originally posted by element771 View PostThree things...
1. I still think that this describes what it will be like to shed our earthly body for our resurrection body.
2. I equate it to going to sleep. When it is time to wake up, it feels like almost no time has passed. I think this is what one hopes. I will die and waking up with Christ will feel immediate.
3. I think these interpretations make it seem that the body is inherently bad which sounds too gnostic for me. Do you not believe that the resurrection is a physical one?
There may be. If there is, I am not opposed to it. I just don't think that is what Scripture tells us.
I think being made in his image is our ability to reason, our urge to create, and our ability to ponder our very existence. I think that this is what separates us from other animals...not a soul.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou have no idea what I've read or haven't read,
1. You have read a lot of material but don't understand it.
2. You have read a lot of material and understand it but like to pretend you don't (i.e. trolling).
3. You have not read anything.
Originally posted by JimL View Postand my mind is open, but my mind being open doesn't mean that i'm susceptible to believing nonsense.
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell the body is mortal, and must put on immortality, and that is not gnostic. Peter does equate putting off his body with death, and that is soon. At the time of his death he puts off his body. I don't think he is looking forward to a future resurrection.
Originally posted by seer View PostWell that is progress of a sort...
OK, well let you sleep while the rest of us are partying in Heaven until the resurrection.
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Actually, I don't really have an opinion on the star. Many stories, while not strictly history, are shown to be rooted in something historical. I have not seen anything about the star specifically, but I can well imagine that there could have been a shooting star or something of that ilk that led to the legends that led to the stories chronicled in the gospels.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, I understand that there is history, and that the biblical myth is woven into that history, but the myth is still a myth.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThey do if they believe the lies of other people or if they believe their own lies.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostActually, I don't really have an opinion on the star. Many stories, while not strictly history, are shown to be rooted in something historical. I have not seen anything about the star specifically, but I can well imagine that there could have been a shooting star or something of that ilk that led to the legends that led to the stories chronicled in the gospels.
I think you would like the scientific approach to verifying the historical accuracy.
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Originally posted by element771 View Post...you can gloat all you would like.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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