IIRC, Fortunatianus saw various events described as having symbolic meaning not that they were fictitious stories.
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Genesis 2:2 He rested on the seventh day from all the work he had undertaken.
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI see. So where would you say that the poetry in genesis ends and the history begins? Besides that, being poetic doesn't make it not a myth.
So say you. Anyway, regardless of whether it is poetry or prose, the fact remains that the beginning of the universe was 14 billion years ago, and it took all those 14 billion years to pass before humans began to exist. Even the dinasaurs ruled the earth for millions of years prior to the existence of humans. You don't find any of that odd considering God supposedly created it all for humans. 14 billion years!
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostTime is not an issue for God. So no, it matters not a whit if the universe is 6000 years old or 13.8 billion years old.Last edited by JimL; 11-11-2017, 08:27 PM.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostDid you read what rogue was responding to?
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou're falling into the same mistake literalist YECs do here. The creation account is poetry, not a science lesson.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostThe idea that the creation account is poetry is definitely one take, but there are, of course, other takes on the narrative that do not preclude a literal reading, and that do not reject an old earth view. I went into some examples of this a couple of years ago. A modified Historical Creationist view, for example, answers a number of objections that skeptics may have about the Genesis narrative. The Old Testament scholar John Sailhamer, for instance, suggests that the sun, moon, and stars were created on day 1. John Piper's website's summary of Sailhamer's work puts it this way,
On day four, God did not create the sun, moon, and stars (they had been created in the beginning, as we have seen), but declared the purpose for which He had created them. This is made most evident from comparing verse 6, which speaks of God bringing into existence an expanse that had not been there before, and verse 14, which speaks of God's command concerning the heavenly bodies that had been there from the beginning. While the text in verse six clearly says that God brought about an expanse that had not been there before, in verse 14 the syntax is different-which suggests that God is doing something other than bringing about what had not been there before.
Sailhamer writes that the "Hebrew verbal construction in verse 14 is significantly different from verse 6" even though
[indent]our English translations don't always reflect that difference. In the Hebrew text of verse 14, God does not say, 'Let there be lights in the expanse to separate the day and night...' as if there were no lights before His command and afterward they came into being [which is the way it was with the expanse in verse 6]. Rather according to the Hebrew text, God said, 'Let the lights in the expanse be for separating the day and night...' God's command, in other words, assumes that the lights already exist in the expanse. To be sure, there has been no mention of these 'lights' earlier in Genesis 1, but their existence is assumed in the expression 'heavens and earth' in Gen 1:1. (131-132).
Thus, on the fourth day God was not creating the sun and stars, but stating the purpose for which he had already created them "in the beginning"-to provide light on the land for man and to be measurements for keeping time. It is amazing that God had His purpose for man in mind eons earlier when He created these heavenly bodies![/cite]
And all for us.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe Old Testament scholar John Sailhamer was a biblical inerrancist and faculty member of such institutions as Biola University and Gateway Seminary, which holds to literal creationist dogma. Therefore he can be expected to interpret the Genesis creation narratives consistent with his literalist presupposition.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostGood of God, but overkill somewhat, given that not only is our solar system one of billions of solar systems in the Milky Way Galaxy, but that this galaxy is but one of billions of galaxies in our universe alone.
And all for us.Last edited by Adrift; 11-12-2017, 03:28 AM.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI've never heard John Sailhamer describe himself as an inerrantist, but even if he was, so what? Tassman,you have an incredibly poor record of positing the genetic fallacy for every hypothesis that rubs you the wrong way.What is the argument here exactly? That God is good? Um..ok. I agree. That God is eternal, and that he has all the time in the world?...I also agree.
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Sure, if you're intellectually inferior, jet lagged, or suffering from massive head trauma.My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAnnual confirmation required by all faculty members
I just call it as I see it, and I'm right about this. You're a serial genetic fallacist.
Originally posted by Tassman View Post(i.e. the sun, moon and stars) is absurd.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe utter vastness of the universe renders the argument that Man is the centre and purpose for it all is arrogant, egocentric nonsense.
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I'm also fairly certain that the size of the universe has nothing to do with the worth of mankind.My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK
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Originally posted by Rational Gaze View PostI'm also fairly certain that the size of the universe has nothing to do with the worth of mankind.
And if you are going to make the argument that time is not an issue for god, then you need answer the question that I posed to rogue which he failed to respond to. If time is no issue for god, being that he exist outside of time, then time is no issue for the universe either.
"So, if you believe otherwise then please give a cogent explanation as to how time can be both static and flowing dependent on ones perspective?"
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