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  • Matthew 27: 62 Mark 15: 42 Luke 23: 54 John 19: 14, 31, 42 Crucifixion occurs on the "Day of Preparation"
    Matthew 15: 42 Mark 23: 54 Luke 19: 31 Crucifixion occurs on the Day of Preparation for a Sabbath
    John 19: 14 Crucifixion occurs on the Day of Preparation for Passover
    Mark 14: 12 Luke 22: 7 Crucifixion occurs on the "Day of Passover Sacrifice"
    Matthew 26: 17 Mark 14: 12 Luke 22: 7 Crucifixion occurs on the first day of "Unleavened Bread"
    Luke 22: 7 Passover Sacrificed on the First Day of Unleavened Bread
    Luke 22: 1 Festival of Unleavened Bread is called Passover
    The day following the Passover Sacrifice is a Sabbath Lev 23: 5
    Mark 15: 42 Luke 23: 54 John 19: 31 The day after the crucifixion is a Sabbath
    John 19: 31 The day after the crucifixion is a High Sabbath
    Last edited by tabibito; 07-02-2017, 07:42 AM.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Matthew 27: 62 Mark 15: 42 Luke 23: 54 John 19: 14, 31, 42 Crucifixion occurs on the "Day of Preparation"
      Matthew 15: 42 Mark 23: 54 Luke 19: 31 Crucifixion occurs on the Day of Preparation for a Sabbath
      John 19: 14 Crucifixion occurs on the Day of Preparation for Passover
      Mark 14: 12 Luke 22: 7 Crucifixion occurs on the "Day of Passover Sacrifice"
      Matthew 26: 17 Mark 14: 12 Luke 22: 7 Crucifixion occurs on the first day of "Unleavened Bread"
      Luke 22: 7 Passover Sacrificed on the First Day of Unleavened Bread
      Luke 22: 1 Festival of Unleavened Bread is called Passover
      The day following the Passover Sacrifice is a Sabbath Lev 23: 5
      Mark 15: 42 Luke 23: 54 John 19: 31 The day after the crucifixion is a Sabbath
      John 19: 31 The day after the crucifixion is a High Sabbath


      None of those references actually explicitly teach Christ was crucified on the day of preparation before 7th day Sabbath. While it is a long standing traditional interpretation that those references do, with the one exception of John 19:14 using the term preparation (preparation of the Passover), all the references in fact do not make reference to the weekly day of preparation until after the crucifixion.

      Mark 14:12 is the 14th.

      Mark 14:17 makes the date of Christ's crucifixion fall on the 15th.

      Jesus' body was asked for and taken down after Mark 15:42 and would not have been done on a Sabbath.


      The interpretation that in 30 A.D. the 14th Mark 14;12 fell on our Wednesday. Christ was crucified on our Thursday.

      Those who hold Christ was crucified on the 14th (John 19;14 as a basis) typically hold to a Friday crucifixion. Some others a Wednesday. Many of those hold Mark 14:12 as the 13th.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • When did I ever argue that the day of preparation was associated with the weekly Sabbath?

        Mark 14:17 can't show that Christ was crucified on the 15th because the Passover was (and still is) slaughtered on the 14th.

        What that table shows is:
        The crucifixion occurred on the first day of unleavened bread, which is the day that the Passover is slaughtered, which is known as the day of preparation, and which is the day before a Sabbath (whether or not that Sabbath falls on the 7th day of the week), which is a High Day (which is not the weekly Sabbath, though it can fall on the 7th day of the week). The table shows that Christ was not crucified on a Sabbath - and the 15th Nissan IS a Sabbath.

        Originally posted by 37818
        all the references in fact do not make reference to the weekly day of preparation until after the crucifixion.
        If you check the references provided, you will find that not all of them occur after the record of the crucifixion. John 19:14, for example, is in the middle of the record for the trial before Pilate.
        Last edited by tabibito; 07-02-2017, 11:15 AM.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          When did I ever argue that the day of preparation was associated with the weekly Sabbath?
          What you have done is refer to the term "preparation" which happens to also be the name of the day before the weekly Sabbath.

          Mark 14:17 can't show that Christ was crucified on the 15th because the Passover was (and still is) slaughtered on the 14th.
          You have yet to clarify your view on Mark 14:12, Mark 14:17 makes the crucifixion to be on the following day.

          What that table shows is:
          The crucifixion occurred on the first day of unleavened bread, which is the day that the Passover is slaughtered, which is known as the day of preparation, . . .
          How? I get it, that is your intent by it. Your argument is not making sense. Mark 14:12 is a whole day before the crucifixion following the day beginning after Mark 14:17.


          If you check the references provided, you will find that not all of them occur after the record of the crucifixion. John 19:14, for example, is in the middle of the record for the trial before Pilate.
          Read what I wrote.

          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          None of those references . . . with the one exception of John 19:14 using the term preparation (preparation of the Passover), . . .
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            What you have done is refer to the term "preparation" which happens to also be the name of the day before the weekly sabbath.
            John calls the Sabbath in question a high day - the weekly Sabbath is not a High Day.

            You have yet to clarify your view on Mark 14:12, Mark 14:17 makes the crucifixion to be on the following day.
            How? I get it, that is your intent by it. Your argument is not making sense. Mark 14:12 is a whole day before the crucifixion following the day beginning after Mark 14:17.
            No - the day started at 6pm, and Jesus arrived for the meal "late" ... there is NO "whole day" in the text.


            Read what I wrote.
            I read what you post. It's plain enough that the courtesy is not reciprocated.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              John calls the Sabbath in question a high day - the weekly Sabbath is not a High Day.
              Yes, in John's account he writes that the 7th day Sabbath is a "high day." That term "high day" regarding the Sabbath is unique to John's account. And is found no where else in the word of God.

              So how do you come to your view that that "high day" Sabbath is not the 7th day Sabbath during the Passover week?

              First, the words, "day of the Festival" is not there in the Geek text and is an interpretation of translators. Secondly, "the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread" is the 15th.

              So you are interpreting Mark 14:12 to be that evening and Mark 14:17 "evening was come" to be a continuation of that evening making the following day also the 14th. Is that what you are arguing?

              Mark 14:17 When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. - Just for argument's sake, make that around 7:30 pm. or it could be even later ... the Koine says "opsios". So all of (maybe) three hours elapse.
              That Greek word ὄψίος opsioa meaning "evening" is used some 14 times in the NT text. And can be understood to refer to sundown (Mark 1:32) denoting a beginning of the next day. (Mark 14:17; Mark 15:42.) The Jewish days begin with their evening.

              No - the day started at 6pm, and Jesus arrived for the meal "late" ... there is NO "whole day" in the text.
              First, I never said the text said a "whole day."

              The difference between our two understandings, you seem to hold that Mark 14:17 to be that same evening of Mark 14:12. I hold that Mark 14:12 to be the day before the day beginning with the evening in Mark 14:17.
              Last edited by 37818; 07-03-2017, 10:40 AM.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Yes, in John's account he writes that the 7th day Sabbath is a "high day." That term "high day" regarding the Sabbath is unique to John's account. And is found no where else in the word of God.
                Because a Sabbath is a day of rest, a day holy to the Lord - the term "high day" does not apply to the weekly Sabbath.

                So how do you come to your view that that "high day" Sabbath is not the 7th day Sabbath during the Passover week?
                Because a Sabbath is a day of rest, a day holy to the Lord - and the weekly Sabbath is NOT a high day. The 1st and 10th days of the 7th month are both Sabbaths ... they CANNOT both be the weekly Sabbath and it is possible for neither to be the weekly Sabbath.

                First, the words, "day of the Festival" is not there in the Geek text and is an interpretation of translators.
                The only word added in translation is "festival" και and τη (on) the πρωτη first ημερα day των of αζυμων (literal) unleaveneds (usage) passover week οτε when το the πασχα passover εθυον was being sacrificed
                Secondly, "the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread" is the 15th.
                IS yes. And even in the present day, the Passover lamb is sacrificed on the 14th.
                Source: http://www.hope-of-israel.org/nisan14p.htm

                What, then, was the 14th of Nisan? In Exodus 12:6 we read that on the 14th of Nisan the children of Israel were to SLAY the Passover lambs. "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation shall KILL it in the evening"

                © Copyright Original Source


                The texts do say "when the passover is sacrificed" (or similar), do they not?
                So you are interpreting Mark 14:12 to be that evening and Mark 14:17 "evening was come" to be a continuation of that evening making the following day also the 14th. Is that what you are arguing?
                That Greek word ὄψίος opsioa meaning "evening" is used some 14 times in the NT text. And can be understood to refer to sundown (Mark 1:32) denoting a beginning of the next day. (Mark 14:17; Mark 15:42.) The Jewish days begin with their evening.
                It can be understood to mean sundown. .... just as it can be understood to mean the end of the calendar day. There can be a short interval between the start of the calendar day and the start of the religious day, which is set by the first three stars becoming visible.

                First, I never said the text said a "whole day."
                Really? Who posted this in post #304?
                Your argument is not making sense. Mark 14:12 is a whole day before the crucifixion following the day beginning after Mark 14:17.
                The difference between our two understandings, you seem to hold that Mark 14:17 to be that same evening of Mark 14:12. I hold that Mark 14:12 to be the day before the day beginning with the evening in Mark 14:17.
                What else is possible? Mark 14:12 says explicitly that it is the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover - that has to be the 14th.
                Source: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=S6vJCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT605&lpg=PT605&dq=15+nissan+sabbath&source=bl&ots=wDBGq5UdLN&sig=wmAogtRBe0S_ODQEHwBAi7nSMN0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5vI3i9e7UAhUFHJQKHYvPD5UQ6AEIZDAN#v=onepage&q=15%20nissan%20sabbath&f=false

                The lamb was slain on the 14th day of Nissan, which was the day before the Sabbath. The next day, (15) a feast day Sabbath, was also the beginning of the feast of unleavened bread..."

                © Copyright Original Source


                Source: http://www.hope-of-israel.org/nisan14p.htm

                Nisan 14 was the day the leavening was put out, and the day the Passover lambs were slain, in late afternoon -- at the very same time Yeshua expired on the tree!

                © Copyright Original Source


                Source: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Spring_Holidays/Pesach/Zman_Seder/zman_seder.html

                The traditional Passover Seder would begin just before sundown on the 14th, but would continue into the new day of Nisan 15

                © Copyright Original Source

                Last edited by tabibito; 07-04-2017, 01:36 AM.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  Yes, in John's account he writes that the 7th day Sabbath is a "high day." That term "high day" regarding the Sabbath is unique to John's account. And is found no where else in the word of God.
                  Because a Sabbath is a day of rest, a day holy to the Lord - the term "high day" does not apply to the weekly Sabbath.

                  So how do you come to your view that that "high day" Sabbath is not the 7th day Sabbath during the Passover week?
                  Because a Sabbath is a day of rest, a day holy to the Lord - and the weekly Sabbath is NOT a high day. The 1st and 10th days of the 7th month are both Sabbaths ... they CANNOT both be the weekly Sabbath and it is possible for neither to be the weekly Sabbath.
                  Well, that may be your thinking on it. Simply repeating the assertion that term "high day" was not or cannot be used for the 7th day Sabbath during the Passover week does not change the fact is it is was used by John regarding that 7th day Sabbath that fell during the Passover week.


                  First, the words, "day of the Festival" is not there in the Greek text and is an interpretation of translators.
                  The only word added in translation is "festival" και and τη (on) the πρωτη first ημερα day των of αζυμων (literal) unleaveneds (usage) passover week οτε when το the πασχα passover εθυον was being sacrificed
                  Yes, my mistake, it is Matthew's (26:17) account where the word "day" was needed to be added.

                  Secondly, "the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread" is the 15th.
                  IS yes. And even in the present day, the Passover lamb is sacrificed on the 14th.
                  Source: http://www.hope-of-israel.org/nisan14p.htm

                  What, then, was the 14th of Nisan? In Exodus 12:6 we read that on the 14th of Nisan the children of Israel were to SLAY the Passover lambs. "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation shall KILL it in the evening"

                  © Copyright Original Source


                  The texts do say "when the passover is sacrificed" (or similar), do they not?
                  So you are interpreting Mark 14:12 to be that evening and Mark 14:17 "evening was come" to be a continuation of that evening making the following day also the 14th. Is that what you are arguing?
                  That Greek word ὄψίος opsioa meaning "evening" is used some 14 times in the NT text. And can be understood to refer to sundown (Mark 1:32) denoting a beginning of the next day. (Mark 14:17; Mark 15:42.) The Jewish days begin with their evening.
                  It can be understood to mean sundown. .... just as it can be understood to mean the end of the calendar day. There can be a short interval between the start of the calendar day and the start of the religious day, which is set by the first three stars becoming visible.
                  There are no Passover lambs or goats (v.5) being offered in our present day. The temple being destroyed in 70 A.D.
                  The Hebrew הערבים literally means "between the two evenings." That is between noon and sunset. So with that understanding I would have to agree that it is better translated "in the afternoon."
                  Scripture Verse: Exodus 12:6, Tanakh Online, Chabad.org


                  . . . And you shall keep it for inspection until the fourteenth day of this month, and the entire congregation of the community of Israel shall slaughter it in the afternoon. . . .

                  © Copyright Original Source





                  First, I never said the text said a "whole day."
                  Really? Who posted this in post #304?
                  Your argument is not making sense. Mark 14:12 is a whole day before the crucifixion following the day beginning after Mark 14:17.
                  OK, I concede that I in err used the word "whole" where I should have used the word "another."


                  The difference between our two understandings, you seem to hold that Mark 14:17 to be that same evening of Mark 14:12. I hold that Mark 14:12 to be the day before the day beginning with the evening in Mark 14:17.
                  What else is possible? Mark 14:12 says explicitly that it is the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover - that has to be the 14th.
                  Source: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=S6vJCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT605&lpg=PT605&dq=15+nissan+sabbath&source=bl&ots=wDBGq5UdLN&sig=wmAogtRBe0S_ODQEHwBAi7nSMN0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5vI3i9e7UAhUFHJQKHYvPD5UQ6AEIZDAN#v=onepage&q=15%20nissan%20sabbath&f=false

                  The lamb was slain on the 14th day of Nissan, which was the day before the Sabbath. The next day, (15) a feast day Sabbath, was also the beginning of the feast of unleavened bread..."

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  The first day of unleavened bread is when the Passover is sacrificed. That day Mark 14:12-16 is that day before the said evening Mark 14:17. Which is the evening before Christ was crucified.

                  You are arguing Christ was crucified on the 14th, are you not? I contend that day was before the said evening of Mark 14:17. Is this or is this not the point of disagreement?


                  Source: http://www.hope-of-israel.org/nisan14p.htm

                  Nisan 14 was the day the leavening was put out, and the day the Passover lambs were slain, in late afternoon -- at the very same time Yeshua expired on the tree!

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  It should noted that the Hope of Israel dot org is Messianic cult web site. They deny the deity of Christ. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/articlesfaith.html

                  Late afternoon I agree with on both counts. Though I hold Christ was crucified on the 15th.

                  Source: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Spring_Holidays/Pesach/Zman_Seder/zman_seder.html

                  The traditional Passover Seder would begin just before sundown on the 14th, but would continue into the new day of Nisan 15

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  Not everyone agrees precisely on this point.

                  http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passo...-Nissan-14.htm
                  http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passo...-the-Seder.htm
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • Send disciples to arrange for Passover meal → The last supper → travel to the garden → in the garden → arrest → trial at the High Priest's house → trial before Pilate → sentenced → crucified → death → retrieval and burial

                    ... At what point do you consider a change of day to have occurred?
                    Last edited by tabibito; 07-05-2017, 04:21 AM.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      Send disciples to arrange for Passover meal → The last supper → travel to the garden → in the garden → arrest → trial at the High Priest's house → trial before Pilate → sentenced → crucified → death → retrieval and burial

                      ... At what point do you consider a change of day to have occurred?
                      Mark 14:17.
                      And again Mark 15:42.
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Mark 14:17.
                        And again Mark 15:42.
                        Mark 14:17 - Jesus and the twelve arrive during the evening. Which of the evenings in a Jewish day would that be? They sit down for the main meal of the day - which in that time would have been the first evening of the day would it not? Around dusk? And the next morning, 6am, would be how many hours after the start of day? That would be twelve hours, yes? If the meal in question was eaten on the 14th, what would the date be the next morning? It would be the 14th, yes? Only 12 hours of the day have elapsed.

                        Mark 15:42 - Joseph of Arimathea requests that the body of Christ be released to him. This would be the same day that Christ was crucified. Mark (15:4) states that Jesus died at the 9th hour (3pm our time), which is at the beginning of the second evening for a Jewish day. In 14:12, Mark states that it is the day of the Passover sacrifice. Who was it that killed the Passover sacrifice in that verse? Could the Passover sacrifice have been killed on a day that wasn't the 14th of Nissan?

                        According to Mark, the meal, the arrest, the crucifixion, and the burial all occurred on the day before the Sabbath.

                        Did Mark state that Judas agreed to betray Christ two days before Passover? (14:1)
                        Did Mark say that Jesus sent two disciples to arrange the meal on the day of the Passover sacrifice? (14:12)
                        Did Jesus arrive with the twelve at evening on the day of the Passover sacrifice? (14:17) No? If they didn't arrive at dusk, and arrived in the second evening of the day you would make his arrest occur on the day of Passover. Look again at 14:1 - two days before Passover: after that, the day of the Passover sacrifice (one day before Passover) then Passover.

                        Passover is on the 15th: the 15th of Nissan is a Sabbath. Passover is a Sabbath, one of several in addition to the weekly Sabbaths ... to verify the fact requires undertaking the difficult task of googling "Passover sabbath".
                        Last edited by tabibito; 07-09-2017, 06:19 AM.
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          Mark 14:17 - Jesus and the twelve arrive during the evening. Which of the evenings in a Jewish day would that be?
                          Again? Do you or do you not understand the point of disagreement? You hold it was yet the 14th. I am of the understanding it was the beginning of the 15th.

                          Mark 15:42 - Joseph of Arimathea requests that the body of Christ be released to him. This would be the same day that Christ was crucified. . . .
                          Scripture Verse: Mark 15:42, The New Living Translation


                          . . . This all happened on Friday, the day of preparation, the day before the Sabbath. As evening approached, . . .

                          © Copyright Original Source


                          Mark 15:42,
                          . . . And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . .

                          As I presume you understand, I hold that evening was the beginning of the day of Preparation being the 6th day of the week.

                          In 14:12, Mark states that it is the day of the Passover sacrifice. Who was it that killed the Passover sacrifice in that verse? Could the Passover sacrifice have been killed on a day that wasn't the 14th of Nissan?
                          And what in the word of God would you base this on?

                          According to Mark, the meal, the arrest, the crucifixion, and the burial all occurred on the day before the Sabbath.
                          Your argument. I hold those things took place on the 15th which was also a sabbath where no work was to be done, except as to eat (Exodus 12:16 ).

                          Did Mark state that Judas agreed to betray Christ two days before Passover? (14:1)
                          Not in that text. (see 14:10-11)
                          And you go on to argue for your view. That is fine.

                          Passover is on the 15th: the 15th of Nissan is a Sabbath. Passover is a Sabbath, one of several in addition to the weekly Sabbaths ... to verify the fact requires undertaking the difficult task of googling "Passover sabbath".
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Again? Do you or do you not understand the point of disagreement? You hold it was yet the 14th. I am of the understanding it was the beginning of the 15th.


                            Scripture Verse: Mark 15:42, The New Living Translation


                            . . . This all happened on Friday, the day of preparation, the day before the Sabbath. As evening approached, . . .

                            © Copyright Original Source

                            So the New Living Translation places the day of preparation on the Friday - which would STILL make the meal, the arrest, the trial, and the crucifixion all happening on the same (Hebrew) day: between 6pm Thursday and 6pm Friday according to our calendar.

                            Mark 15:42,
                            . . . And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . .

                            As I presume you understand, I hold that evening was the beginning of the day of Preparation being the 6th day of the week.

                            And what in the word of God would you base this on?
                            Exodus 12: 5-6, 10 [I]Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats:2 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire. The Passover sacrifice is to be made on the evening of the 14th. (which of the evenings is not stipulated.) Possible translation gives "between the evenings" - which would be between the beginning of the first evening and the end of the second evening. Possible translation also gives "during the evening," with the alternative meaning of "between" and the "evenings" being the honorific form of "evening". Regardless of the nuances, the Passover sacrifice is to be made on the 14th, and the 15th is a Sabbath.
                            Source: www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/convocation/

                            Hence it is called an "holy convocation." Such convocations were the Sabbaths ( Leviticus 23:2 Leviticus 23:3 ), the Passover ( Exodus 12:16 ; Leviticus 23:7 ...

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            Leviticus 12: 5-7 5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
                            Verse 7 defines the 15th day of Nissan as a Sabbath.

                            Your argument. I hold those things took place on the 15th which was also a sabbath where no work was to be done, except as to eat (Exodus 12:16 ).
                            The crucifixion was conducted on the day that the Passover was sacrificed. Mark 14:12 τη πρωτη ημερα των αζυμων οτε το πασχα εθυον λεγουσιν αυτω ... the first day of unleavened bread, when they were sacrificing the passover they say to him Main action - sacrifice (imperfect tense) ... secondary action "say" (present tense) = action occurring concurrently with the main action.

                            Not in that text. (see 14:10-11)
                            And you go on to argue for your view. That is fine.
                            Quite correct - I didn't cite the verse with information about Judas's agreement to betray Christ ... but that agreement was made two days prior to the first day of the festival of unleavened bread, the meal through to Christ being lowered from the tree was one day before the day of Passover - which, according to your reckoning, would be the Saturday.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 07-09-2017, 02:51 PM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              Exodus 12: 5-6, 10 [I]Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take [it] out from the sheep, or from the goats:2 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire. The Passover sacrifice is to be made on the evening of the 14th. (which of the evenings is not stipulated.) Possible translation gives "between the evenings" - which would be between the beginning of the first evening and the end of the second evening. Possible translation also gives "during the evening," with the alternative meaning of "between" and the "evenings" being the honorific form of "evening". Regardless of the nuances, the Passover sacrifice is to be made on the 14th, and the 15th is a Sabbath.
                              Source: www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/convocation/

                              Hence it is called an "holy convocation." Such convocations were the Sabbaths ( Leviticus 23:2 Leviticus 23:3 ), the Passover ( Exodus 12:16 ; Leviticus 23:7 ...

                              © Copyright Original Source


                              Leviticus 12: 5-7 5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
                              Verse 7 defines the 15th day of Nissan as a Sabbath.
                              That the 15th was a holy convocation sabbath is not at issue.

                              The crucifixion was conducted on the day that the Passover was sacrificed. Mark 14:12 τη πρωτη ημερα των αζυμων οτε το πασχα εθυον λεγουσιν αυτω ... the first day of unleavened bread, when they were sacrificing the passover they say to him Main action - sacrifice (imperfect tense) ... secondary action "say" (present tense) = action occurring concurrently with the main action.
                              The view that the crucifixion took place on the 14th the first day of unleavened bread is the common view as to the day Christ was crucifed.

                              That, nevertheless, does not change the fact that 7 Passover lambs were to be offered during the 7 days of the feast.
                              Numbers 28:17, . . . 19, . . . 24,
                              . . . the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days . . . _ . . .seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish: . . . _ . . . ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, . . .


                              Quite correct - I didn't cite the verse with information about Judas's agreement to betray Christ ... but that agreement was made two days prior to the first day of the festival of unleavened bread, the meal through to Christ being lowered from the tree was one day before the day of Passover - which, according to your reckoning, would be the Saturday.
                              Well, the text says two days before the Passover, does not say the feast (that is a translator interpretation). The rest of your argument makes no sense. And does not represent my view.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment


                              • I'll state the facts in simple terms:

                                According to Mark:
                                1/ Two days before Passover Judas agrees to betray Christ
                                2/ Two days before Passover, other things also happened.
                                3/ One day before Passover, they sacrifice the Passover lamb. (the first day of unleavened bread)
                                4/ Also one day before Passover, they eat
                                5/ Also one day before Passover, Jesus is betrayed.
                                6/ Also one day before Passover, Jesus is arrested
                                7/ Also one day before Passover, Jesus is put on trial
                                8/ Also one day before Passover, Jesus is crucified
                                9/ Also one day before Passover, Jesus is taken down from the tree
                                10/ Also one day before Passover, Jesus is laid in a tomb.

                                According to 1st Century Jewish practice:
                                2 days before Passover is the 13th
                                1 day before Passover is the 14th - Passover lamb is sacrificed roughly 3 hours to 1 hour before the end of the day.
                                Passover is the 15th. The Passover is EATEN around sundown (roughly 2 - 3 hours after the start of the day)
                                On the morning of the Fifteenth (roughly 9 or 10 hours after the Passover is eaten), the left-over lamb is used as a burnt offering

                                The 15th of Nissan is a Sabbath.
                                So - if you disagree with the summation I've put up - use the same style of presentation to state your case.
                                Last edited by tabibito; 07-10-2017, 09:27 AM.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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