The 'best' arguments for atheism and Christianity

[JimL]

I do not believe there can be any scientific evidence that pertains to the truth of Gods existence. The God of the Bible, at least, is not a part of the creation so can not be tested scientifically. This means that other evidence is the only sort that can be used. This eliminates all supposed arguments that point to the lack of such evidence as a reason to disbelieve. All such arguments are irrational. For me this comes down to which is more in line with what I can test: The universe (that is all that is) is a creation of a power beyond itself, or the universe simply is self existent.

Yes, and since the only evidence of existence that we have is that of the universe, then there is no reason, or need, to assume that there is anything beyond itself which created it out of nothing.

[Tassman]

I do not believe there can be any scientific evidence that pertains to the truth of Gods existence. The God of the Bible, at least, is not a part of the creation so can not be tested scientifically. This means that other evidence is the only sort that can be used. This eliminates all supposed arguments that point to the lack of such evidence as a reason to disbelieve. All such arguments are irrational. For me this comes down to which is more in line with what I can test: The universe (that is all that is) is a creation of a power beyond itself, or the universe simply is self existent.

Yes, like God is claimed to be. This is the more parsimonious explanation.

[crepuscule]

The universe (that is all that is) is a creation of a power beyond itself, (....)

all that is

[Sparko]

Yes, and since the only evidence of existence that we have is that of the universe, then there is no reason, or need, to assume that there is anything beyond itself which created it out of nothing.

he said no scientific evidence, not "no evidence"

There is no way to test for God using science experiments. At least none that we have thought of yet. But there is plenty of evidence. The bible is evidence. God's revelation is evidence. Jesus is evidence. Miracles are evidence. Prayers answered is evidence. Prophesies being fulfilled are evidence. Healing is evidence.

Not evidence that you accept, but others do.

Although, considering your standard of evidence when it comes to condemning Trump or anything conservative, you should be the Pope by now.

[Adrift]

he said no scientific evidence, not "no evidence"

There is no way to test for God using science experiments. At least none that we have thought of yet. But there is plenty of evidence. The bible is evidence. God's revelation is evidence. Jesus is evidence. Miracles are evidence. Prayers answered is evidence. Prophesies being fulfilled are evidence. Healing is evidence.

It seems to me that creation itself provides plenty of evidence (cosmological and teleological arguments). As does the existence of morality, consciousness, and reason itself. Lots and lots of evidence for God. Whether one finds that evidence persuasive is another matter of course.

[rogue06]

It seems to me that creation itself provides plenty of evidence (cosmological and teleological arguments).

Paul sure thought so as evidenced by his words in the first chapter of Romans.

[One Bad Pig]

Paul sure thought so as evidenced by his words in the first chapter of Romans.

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Paul was an Iron Age tentmaker. What did he know?

I think my sarcasm is rather obvious, but around here, one never knows.

[JimL]

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Paul was an Iron Age tentmaker. What did he know?

I think my sarcasm is rather obvious, but around here, one never knows.

Exactly.

[Jedidiah]

all that is

Got any other nits?

[crepuscule]

Got any other nits?

Loaded question, but now that you ask:

The God of the Bible, at least, is not a part of the creation so can not be tested scientifically.

The so

[seer]

Loaded question, but now that you ask:
The so

But the universe, even if it was self-existence, would still be part of creation. A physical entity. God is not physical. At least not in the sense that we understand physical.

[Sparko]

But the universe, even if it was self-existence, would still be part of creation. A physical entity. God is not physical. At least not in the sense that we understand physical.

Except as Jesus. And when he was in the world he could be scientifically tested. He claimed to be God but He was killed. Then observed to be alive later. Hypothesis: Is Jesus really God? Proposed test: Let's kill him and find out! Test result: oops he came back alive. conclusion: Jesus is God. God exists.

[JimL]

Except as Jesus. And when he was in the world he could be scientifically tested. He claimed to be God but He was killed. Then observed to be alive later. Hypothesis: Is Jesus really God? Proposed test: Let's kill him and find out! Test result: oops he came back alive. conclusion: Jesus is God. God exists.

Well, at least in the fairy tale version of his life.

[seer]

Well, at least in the fairy tale version of his life.

What fairy tale Jim?

[JimL]

What fairy tale Jim?

What else, the gospel version written 4 decades after his death.