Originally posted by One Bad Pig
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe actual Maps provided tell a different story. The amount under water is only the Isle of Hercules on the Southern end of the Isle of Tyre where the major part of the walled city and Temple are located..
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThis was surprisingly easy to answer. A google search turned up exactly one result, namely this discussion. Some guy named "lee_merrill" talks about receiving and reading the book, and supplies some quotes from it. Gee, could that possibly be the same guy you're talking to here? It is manifestly not copied seventeenth hand, but quoted from the original. You'll have to buy/borrow a copy yourself if you want to check, since you manifestly don't trust Lee to quote it accurately.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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So the reason there are few ruins of Tyre above water is not because most of the ruins were below water, as you claimed previously,* but because the above water ruins have been scavenged for masonry over the centuries.
OBP, do you see now why I don't trust Lee's quoting? He quoted the line about there being few above-water ruins (which are consistent with his contention that the island sank) but didn't quote the subsequent lines that discussed why (which refute it).
Lee is quote-mining.
*"If at one time the ruins above water were few, that implies the ruins below water were many."Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostLee is quote-mining.
Jidejian is not saying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially underwater, as Lee implied, she is saying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially scavenged for use elsewhere. A city being underwater might prevent it being rebuilt, but a city being scavenged for materials would not. Jidejian's text does not support the site of Tyre being substantially underwater, and you can not honestly use Jidejian to say that Tyre has never been rebuilt.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo the reason there are few ruins of Tyre above water is not because most of the ruins were below water, as you claimed previously,* but because the above water ruins have been scavenged for masonry over the centuries.
OBP, do you see now why I don't trust Lee's quoting? He quoted the line about there being few above-water ruins (which are consistent with his contention that the island sank) but didn't quote the subsequent lines that discussed why (which refute it).
Lee is quote-mining.
*"If at one time the ruins above water were few, that implies the ruins below water were many."Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI don't like quote mining any more than you do. However, if you knew that quote mining was the issue, given your knowledge of the other thread, why did you toss in the other baseless charges as well?
I noticed that Lee was 'quoting' from he book he had just said he didn't have a copy of, and being aware of his past behaviour and those of YEC advocates in general, became suspicious. Note that Lee's follow-up remarks suggest he did not get the text from that thread, which still leaves open the question of where he got it.Last edited by Roy; 01-31-2018, 12:53 PM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostJidejian is not saying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially underwater, as Lee implied, she is saying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially scavenged for use elsewhere. A city being underwater might prevent it being rebuilt, but a city being scavenged for materials would not. Jidejian's text does not support the site of Tyre being substantially underwater, and you can not honestly use Jidejian to say that Tyre has never been rebuilt.
Blessings,
LeeAttached Files"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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In the interest of full disclosure, here is a quote that would tell against my view here: "The silted up harbour on the south side of the peninsula has been excavated by the French Institute for Archaeology in the Near East, but most of the remains of the Phoenician period still lie beneath the present town."
I do wonder though how they know the remains are there, if they're still beneath the town. But there are remains above ground (from the same site):
"In 1980, modern Tyre's impressive Roman and Phoenician remains prompted UNESCO to make the town one of its world heritage sites."
And remains in the sea, which are important to acknowledge as well.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Emphasis mine:Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostIn the interest of full disclosure, here is a quote that would tell against my view here: "The silted up harbour on the south side of the peninsula has been excavated by the French Institute for Archaeology in the Near East, but most of the remains of the Phoenician period still lie beneath the present town."Last edited by Roy; 02-01-2018, 04:38 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostJidejian is not saying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially underwater, as Lee implied, she is saying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially scavenged for use elsewhere. A city being underwater might prevent it being rebuilt, but a city being scavenged for materials would not. Jidejian's text does not support the site of Tyre being substantially underwater, and you can not honestly use Jidejian to say that Tyre has never been rebuilt.
Jidejian's text does not support the site of Tyre being substantially underwater, and you can not honestly use Jidejian to say that Tyre has never been rebuilt.
You were quote-mining.Once it's underwater, of course, any quarrying will stop. Apparently it sank substantially at some time, see the attached map.Last edited by Roy; 02-01-2018, 04:54 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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The island of Tyre.
rr1006c.jpg
tyre-300x235.jpg
c3c7bab3a0a9f7448b69bfddee822f9f--lebanon-homeland.jpg
Now if you get a Google satellite view of the cost off where the land bridge to the island is. That is the site of the prophetic city of Tyre not rebuilt. Take a look.Last edited by 37818; 02-01-2018, 11:06 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Roy View PostIf the present town of Tyre is on top of most of the Phoenician remains, then clearly the modern town is in the same location as the ancient one, and, since it has the same name, Tyre has been rebuilt.
Originally posted by RoyJidejian's text does not support the site of Tyre being substantially underwater, and you can not honestly use Jidejian to say that Tyre has never been rebuilt.
Originally posted by RoySo you think the quarrying "from the 18th century onward" occurred before Tyre sank?
Blessings,
LeeLast edited by lee_merrill; 02-01-2018, 01:44 PM."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe island of Tyre.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26305[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26306[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26307[/ATTACH]
Now if you get a Google satellite view of the cost off where the land bridge to the island is. That is the site of the prophetic city of Tyre not rebuilt. Take a look.
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