The 'best' arguments for atheism and Christianity

[shunyadragon]

Glad to discuss them!

Blessings,
Lee

The Nile will dry up and sea will drain. Never happened, nor have the human induced reduced flow of the Nile be the Aswan Dam fulfill the prophecies.

Isaiah 19:1-8:

The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up. And they shall turn the rivers far away; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither. The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile; those who throw nets on the water will pine away.

[lee_merrill]

The Nile will dry up and sea will drain. Never happened...

I think this describes the Nile drying up, but not the sea.

"The waters from the sea will dry up..." (Is 19:5, NASB)

Are you saying we have no evidence that the Nile dried up? But absence of evidence is not (as they say) evidence of absence.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

I think this describes the Nile drying up, but not the sea.

"The waters from the sea will dry up..." (Is 19:5, NASB)

Are you saying we have no evidence that the Nile dried up? But absence of evidence is not (as they say) evidence of absence.

Blessings,
Lee

What a gooooffffy goof ball response. There is no evidence the Nile has ever dried up! Also the rest of the prophecy concerning Egypt never happened. This is a specific prophecy that has never come true. The upper reaches of the Nile would have to dry up, which has not ever happened.

Same goes with the city of Tyre, other than the low rocky Isle of Hercules (outside the main ancient island fortress and city) the city of Tyre has been repeatedly rebuilt and never under water.

[lee_merrill]

What a gooooffffy goof ball response. There is no evidence the Nile has ever dried up! Also the rest of the prophecy concerning Egypt never happened. This is a specific prophecy that has never come true. The upper reaches of the Nile would have to dry up, which has not ever happened.

Are you saying there should be a record? Arguing from silence in archaeology is a chancy business.

Same goes with the city of Tyre, other than the low rocky Isle of Hercules (outside the main ancient island fortress and city) the city of Tyre has been repeatedly rebuilt and never under water.

Though I gave you a quote from a secular archaeologist implying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially underwater.

Blessings,
Lee

[carpedm9587]

I think this describes the Nile drying up, but not the sea.

"The waters from the sea will dry up..." (Is 19:5, NASB)

Are you saying we have no evidence that the Nile dried up? But absence of evidence is not (as they say) evidence of absence.

Blessings,
Lee

Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence.

Absence of proof is NOT proof of absence.

[shunyadragon]

Are you saying there should be a record? Arguing from silence in archaeology is a chancy business.

Not arguing from silence. The historical, archaeological, geological, and geomorphology record is evidence that the Nile River has never dried, and will not unless for some reason the upper Nile draining a tropical forest watershed stops flowing.

Though I gave you a quote from a secular archaeologist implying that the ruins of Tyre are substantially underwater.

Blessings,
Lee

Your citation only referred to the low rocky Island of Hercules, and not the main walled fortress, city and temple that represented the city of Tyre.

[lee_merrill]

Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence.

Not so much in archeology, though, it's hard to prove that something did not happen, based on the archeological record. I'm not sure what you'd expect to find in the geological record, for a river drying up.

Absence of proof is NOT proof of absence.

Yes, agreed.

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

Not arguing from silence. The historical, archaeological, geological, and geomorphology record is evidence that the Nile River has never dried, and will not unless for some reason the upper Nile draining a tropical forest watershed stops flowing.

That's quite a claim! And history and archeology are mostly silent, and I'm not sure how geology will record a river drying up. Maybe the river bed? Though that seems doubtful. And you rule out a miracle, though I'm not sure on what basis.

Your citation only referred to the low rocky Island of Hercules, and not the main walled fortress, city and temple that represented the city of Tyre.

[shunyadragon]

That's quite a claim! And history and archeology are mostly silent, and I'm not sure how geology will record a river drying up. Maybe the river bed? Though that seems doubtful. And you rule out a miracle, though I'm not sure on what basis.

I prefer geological and geomorphological evidence over miracles ( I reserve my magic wand to my comedy, burlesque and mime acts) Yes, the drilling for oil and other exploration of the delta region of the Nile show the annual seasonal deposition of the Nile going back thousands and tens of thousands of years and more. Every year the Nile floods the evidence shows up in the deposition sequence not only in the delta, but on the flood plains also. This is where geomorphology comes in. No the Nile has never dried up. Of course, you may prefer miracles of geologic/geomorphologic evidence.


Citing a tourist guide, yuck! yuck! yuck!

Well let's review . . .

As cited there may be ruins on the Island of Hercules of parts of the city, but as cited the city, fortress, walls and Temple are on the larger Island of Tyre. This is the city of Tyre on the maps based on archaeological evidence.

[Roy]

Doesn't the prophecy not only claim that Tyre will not be rebuilt, but also that it will become a bare rock on which fishermen spread out their nets? You can't spread out a net to dry underwater.

[Roy]

Not arguing from silence. The historical, archaeological, geological, and geomorphology record is evidence that the Nile River has never dried, and will not unless for some reason the upper Nile draining a tropical forest watershed stops flowing.

That's quite a claim! And history and archeology are mostly silent, ...

Have you checked the extent of Egyptian archaeological records for Nile inundation levels, or are you simply making assumptions here?

[carpedm9587]

Not so much in archeology, though, it's hard to prove that something did not happen, based on the archeological record. I'm not sure what you'd expect to find in the geological record, for a river drying up.

In all disciplines, Lee. It is not proof - but it is evidence.

[carpedm9587]

That's quite a claim! And history and archeology are mostly silent, and I'm not sure how geology will record a river drying up. Maybe the river bed? Though that seems doubtful. And you rule out a miracle, though I'm not sure on what basis.Blessings,

Lee

Am I understanding this correctly? The prophecy is that the Nile would dry up, and the lack of evidence that the Nile DIDN'T dry up is your basis for accepting that it did and the prophecy is fulfilled?

[shunyadragon]

Am I understanding this correctly? The prophecy is that the Nile would dry up, and the lack of evidence that the Nile DIDN'T dry up is your basis for accepting that it did and the prophecy is fulfilled?

. . . based on the possibiity of a miracle like the spreading of the Red Sea. The geologic and geomorphology of the sediments of the Delta and alluvial floodplain and terraces are conclusive evidence that the Nile never dried up.

These soil and geologic core records of the Nile and all over the world in deltas and lakes also are specific evidence that no world flood nor regional flood occurred as described in the Bible. The only geologic and soil evidence for the Biblical flood occurs in the Tigris Euphrates Valley as catastrophic river floods.

[carpedm9587]

. . . based on the possibiity of a miracle like the spreading of the Red Sea. The geologic and geomorphology of the sediments of the Delta and alluvial floodplain and terraces are conclusive evidence that the Nile never dried up.

These soil and geologic core records of the Nile and all over the world in deltas and lakes also are specific evidence that no world flood nor regional flood occurred as described in the Bible. The only geologic and soil evidence for the Biblical flood occurs in the Tigris Euphrates Valley as catastrophic river floods.

I guess I came into the discussion late - and I don't have time right now to go back and trace the thread.

Thanks for the clarification.