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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The 'best' arguments for atheism and Christianity
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe problem it is common all through ancient history many great cities, kingdoms, empires were destroyed and never rebuilt. Some cities destroyed were rebuilt again and again when it supported an economy and need.
A prophesy that any one city or another will not be rebuilt is not significant.
The prophesy concerning the city of Tyre being never rebuilt failed, because it has been rebuilt and occupied for most of history. There are numerous prophecies that have not come true. Point to a couple of maybes is not a good argument.
Prophecies about Tyre: Eze. 26:13-14 "So I will silence the sound of your songs, and the sound of your harps will be heard no more. And I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be built no more, for I the Lord have spoken," declares the Lord God.
Eze. 26:21 "I shall bring terrors on you, and you will be no more; though you will be sought, you will never be found again," declares the Lord God.
Blessings,
LeeLast edited by lee_merrill; 12-24-2017, 01:25 PM."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOK, Lee. If it's important to your beliefs, so be it. It is not an adequate basis for me to establish a belief system. It's much too nebulous and unbounded."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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As I said, Lee, my beliefs cannot be based on scriptural passages or vague prophecies. I will leave that to you. I look elsewhere to base my beliefs.
Merry Christmas!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAs I said, Lee, my beliefs cannot be based on scriptural passages or vague prophecies. I will leave that to you. I look elsewhere to base my beliefs.
Merry Christmas!"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostThough Alexander the Great tried to restore Babylon, and so did Saddam Hussein, and they both failed.
Well, you can't have it both ways! Now it's important if such a prophecy fails. But we have evidence that ancient Tyre sank under the sea, and has not been rebuilt.
Prophecies about Tyre: Eze. 26:13-14 "So I will silence the sound of your songs, and the sound of your harps will be heard no more. And I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be built no more, for I the Lord have spoken," declares the Lord God.
Eze. 26:21 "I shall bring terrors on you, and you will be no more; though you will be sought, you will never be found again," declares the Lord God.
Nonetheless the city of Tyre like many ancient geographically important cities has been rebuilt a number of times, and remains today as matter of fact. The prophecy failed.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-24-2017, 08:49 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNonetheless the city of Tyre like many ancient geographically important cities has been rebuilt a number of times, and remains today as matter of fact. The prophecy failed."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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The fortress was on the larger island above the smaller lower Hercules Island. To build a fortress on the low rocky island would be foolish at best. The Hercules island may have been occupied, but it only represent less than a fourth of the whole Island where the fortress and temple was.
See maps here: https://www.google.com/search?q=tyre...ZrA8QPOCm0pyM:Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-25-2017, 03:40 PM.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostMerry Christmas to you too!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe fortress was on the larger island above the smaller lower Hercules Island. To build a fortress on the low rocky island would be foolish at best. The Hercules island may have been occupied, but it only represent less than a fourth of the whole Island where the fortress and temple was.
See maps here: https://www.google.com/search?q=tyre...ZrA8QPOCm0pyM:
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostWell, we'll evidently have to agree to disagree, I gave you what you asked for, secular archaeologists...
Blessings,
Lee
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostTo me the prophesies in the OT about Christ that were fulfilled in the NT are more important.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNo, you actually did not, the Island of Hercules may have had buildings on it at the time, but you failed to acknowledge that the larger higher Island had the ancient fortress, walls and Temple located by archaeology as shown in the maps which also located Alexander's constructed Mote. Most of the ancient city, the fortress and temple location remain above water as shown on the maps. The prophesy for the City of Tyre failed.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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