The 'best' arguments for atheism and Christianity

[Jedidiah]

So 'blind faith' is the way to go?

Seems to be adequate for you to reject God.

If God involved himself in the natural world then this would be measurable via scientific methodology. Although one wonders how an immaterial deity can interact with the material world, where do they connect?

Not being an omnipotent being myself I can no more make such a claim than can you.

Such as?

Hint: Read this thread.

[shunyadragon]

Assuming you've actually read it, you've done a bang-up job of mischaracterizing it (which is not a surprise, given your penchant for misreading just about every source you cite here). Quite a few of the accounts Keener supplies include corroboration by medical doctors. It seems that any amount of hand-waving is justified in order to sustain disbelief in miracles.

That's nice.

I read about this claim in Keener and available in other references, and the few supposed accurate documented healings, out of the vast volume can be explained by natural healing.

[Tassman]

Assuming you've actually read it, you've done a bang-up job of mischaracterizing it (which is not a surprise, given your penchant for misreading just about every source you cite here).

Sigh! Always the other person's fault isn't it?

Quite a few of the accounts Keener supplies include corroboration by medical doctors.

...and the regrowing limbs?

It seems that any amount of hand-waving is justified in order to sustain disbelief in miracles.

See above.

[Tassman]

Seems to be adequate for you to reject God.

Not being an omnipotent being myself I can no more make such a claim than can you.

DO know that god-did-it.

Hint: Read this thread.

Hint: Personal testimony of Jesus being your invisible friend and saviour is not credible evidence.

[shunyadragon]

In a long ago previous thread I addressed the problem of miraculous healing history of Lourdes, France.

First, the incidence of claims of spontaneous healing are very low out of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of visitors who visited the shrine to pray for healing. This rate of healing is comparable to medically documented spontaneous healing recorded in general, as in the spontaneous healing of leukemia, and other cancers.

Second, the extent of corroboration by medical doctors is limited, and the common statement is ". . . in a way unexplained by current medical scientific knowledge." This claim is a classic 'argument from ignorance' to justify a very very small amount of 'reported' miracles over the millennia. The present documented spontaneous healing of Leukemia and some other cancers cannot be currently explained either.

Third, scientific research that attempted to healing attributed to prayer, and other efforts of 'Divine intervention' found that the incidence of healing was slightly higher in general for those who had strong family and peer support, prayer, meditation, and a strong positive attitude.

[One Bad Pig]

Sigh! Always the other person's fault isn't it?

Well, no. Shunya's special.

...and the regrowing limbs?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a medical doctor to notice a regrown limb.

[Sparko]

Can I quote that to you the next time you go on and on about some New York Times or CNN article that has nothing by anonymous sources and no substantiation?

[Jedidiah]

A fine example of "blind faith" in this comment.

[Zymologist]

Can I quote that to you the next time you go on and on about some New York Times or CNN article that has nothing by anonymous sources and no substantiation?

Better to ask forgiveness than permission, right?

[Tassman]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a medical doctor to notice a regrown limb.

Maybe not, but miraculous claims of regrown limbs require more than anecdotal accounts.

[Tassman]

A fine example of "blind faith" in this comment.

[Sparko]

wait so you DON'T reject unsubstantiated claims, then? You blindly accept them?

[One Bad Pig]

Maybe not, but miraculous claims of regrown limbs require more than anecdotal accounts.

Why? It's not as if you'd believe it if it was happening right in front of you.

[Jedidiah]

Spin, spin, spin.

[Tassman]

Why? It's not as if you'd believe it if it was happening right in front of you.

Irrelevant! We have no first-hand evidence of a miraculously growing limb, only anecdotal evidence. .