The 'best' arguments for atheism and Christianity

[Sparko]

Well, at least in the fairy tale version of his life.

so now you are denying science? Science-denier!!!

[seer]

What else, the gospel version written 4 decades after his death.

Why would you call that a fairy tale? People who knew Christ were still alive.

[Adrift]

Why would you call that a fairy tale? People who knew Christ were still alive.

They were certainly alive during the the creation of the Corinthian creed only a few years after his death.

[seer]

They were certainly alive during the the creation of the Corinthian creed only a few years after his death.

And I take the Gospel of Luke and Acts at face value including the testimony of eye witnesses. Along with the eye witness claims in the Gospel of John and 1st John.

[crepuscule]

But the universe, even if it was self-existence, would still be part of creation. A physical entity. God is not physical. At least not in the sense that we understand physical.

Beg to differ, though it is a matter of definitions. Imo creation requires a creator, and is not restricted to nor defined by physicality. A self-existent universe has no creator, thus it is not a (part of) creation. It is merely existing.

[Jedidiah]

Loaded question, but now that you ask:
The so

Science is "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment."* Or "systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation. "**

Thus you can test any part of the material universe, but you can not go outside and test the origin of the universe.


* According to Google
** According to Dictionary.com

[Adrift]

And I take the Gospel of Luke and Acts at face value including the testimony of eye witnesses. Along with the eye witness claims in the Gospel of John and 1st John.

As do I. Just pointing out that an even earlier version of the account exists than the Gospels.

[JimL]

Why would you call that a fairy tale? People who knew Christ were still alive.

And how do you know that, because its in the fairy tale?

[seer]

And how do you know that, because its in the fairy tale?

Jim you are claiming that it is a fairy tale, but there is no evidence that it is a fairy tale or that the writers intended to spin a yarn. But my point was about the Gospels being written four decades after the events. Which is not a problem since many original followers of Christ could still around.

[JimL]

Jim you are claiming that it is a fairy tale, but there is no evidence that it is a fairy tale or that the writers intended to spin a yarn. But my point was about the Gospels being written four decades after the events. Which is not a problem since many original followers of Christ could still around.

Original followers? Random followers are not necessarily witnesses to anything. They're like you, they didn't have to witness anything in order to be a follower.

[Zymologist]

Original followers? Random followers are not necessarily witnesses to anything.

Especially not if it's to a Jewish zombie with an invisible daddy in the sky, miright?

[seer]

Original followers? Random followers are not necessarily witnesses to anything. They're like you, they didn't have to witness anything in order to be a follower.

Again Jim your four decade thing has no merit, neither does your fairy tale claim. You are just in a particularly sour mood tonight and throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks....

[JimL]

Again Jim your four decade thing has no merit, neither does your fairy tale claim. You are just in a particularly sour mood tonight and throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks....

Unless you can provide credible evidence, apart from the written tale itself, of the claimed miraculous events therein, then there is no more reason to believe the claims to be true than there is to believe in the reality of little red riding hood.

[seer]

Unless you can provide credible evidence, apart from the written tale itself, of the claimed miraculous events therein, then there is no more reason to believe the claims to be true than there is to believe in the reality of little red riding hood.

Jim, have a snickers bar...

[JimL]

Jim, have a snickers bar...

Don't particularly like snickers, like some conservative twebers here, too nutty.