Getting to grips with God

[Tassman]

That is silly FF, there is nothing that I know that would ensure social cohesion more than a common religion. Why do you think that the evolutionary process had selected for religious tendencies?

By common religion you mean Islam I presume. NO? Hinduism perhaps! NO? Oh you mean YOUR

Remember in this world atheism is still the distinct minority. And you assume that less religion would lead to greater peace or unity - that too is unfounded, it could just as well lead to pogroms and gulags on a universal scale. Sorry bro, you have absolutely nothing to offer.

[seer]

By common religion you mean Islam I presume. NO? Hinduism perhaps! NO? Oh you mean YOUR

It doesn't matter what religion for the sake of argument, the point is I believe religion would be better at providing cohesion since we are obviously religious by nature. Do you have anything better?


That is pure crap Tass, you can not compare a Norway with a United States. There are too many variables. You would have to demonstrate that religion was the cause of greater violence or that lack of religion made populations less violent - which you can't. So stop with the pseudoscience.

[tabibito]

Communist China - atheist -

http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left/chi...ths1.html]This

Communist China - body count between the years of 1949-1987 to be 35,236,000 (Rummel 1994). This excluded 38,000,000 million that died of famine during the Great Leap Forward. (seems the famine during the Great Leap Forward was mostly engineered by Mao - hence the higher estimates after that information became available.)
Communist Russia - atheist - Body Count: 58,627,000 1922-1991 (69 years) The body count only covers the years 1923-1987 (Rummel 1996).
North Korea - atheist - 1,663,000 is attributed between 1948-1987 excluding the Korean War (Rummel 1994). 2,500,000 is the mid-estimate for those who starved to death between 1995-1998 (U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea 2006).
Cambodia Body Count: 2,627,000
Cuba has shown remarkable restraint - a mere 73 000
and the list goes on and on and on

Mongol conquests: body count 30 - 40 million

Yep, nice peace loving people these atheists - we could all learn something from them.

[Tassman]

It doesn't matter what religion for the sake of argument, the point is I believe religion would be better at providing cohesion since we are obviously religious by nature. Do you have anything better?

That is pure crap Tass, you can not compare a Norway with a United States. There are too many variables. You would have to demonstrate that religion was the cause of greater violence or that lack of religion made populations less violent - which you can't. So stop with the pseudoscience.

The most actively religious country in the western world, i.e. The USA, is statistically the most inequitable and violent among all comparable nations.

[Tassman]

Yep, nice peace loving people these atheists - we could all learn something from them.

All totalitarian societies, whether theocratic or secular, tend to be violent.

[seer]

That is just silly Tass, for it there was a universal faith that would have a unifying effect - universally. But the problem is that men separate themselves on any number of grounds; nationality, politics, race, religion, wealth (or lack of), etc.... There is a problem with man - not religion per se.

The most actively religious country in the western world, i.e. The USA, is statistically the most inequitable and violent among all comparable nations.

But religion does not cause that. Hey we will send all our gang bangers to Norway and see how they make out.

[tabibito]

All totalitarian societies, whether theocratic or secular, tend to be violent.

Which admits that religion is not the problem. (In fact, it's just a handy excuse for people who can't let others live in peace.)

[firstfloor]

Which admits that religion is not the problem. (In fact, it's just a handy excuse for people who can't let others live in peace.)

http://www.standard.net/Guest-Commen...rian-societies

[Tassman]

Which admits that religion is not the problem. (In fact, it's just a handy excuse for people who can't let others live in peace.)

It's the demand to conformity which is the problem, whether to secular values as in say, Fascism or God as per the great religions.

[Tassman]

That is just silly Tass, for it there was a universal faith that would have a unifying effect - universally. But the problem is that men separate themselves on any number of grounds; nationality, politics, race, religion, wealth (or lack of), etc.... There is a problem with man - not religion per se.

But religion does not cause that.

Nor does it result in a cohesive society in the actively Christian USA; look at how cohesive a secular society such as Norway can be.

Hey we will send all our gang bangers to Norway and see how they make out.

Norway, unlike the violent USA, doesn't have a large, marginalised sub-class that breeds "gangbangers"

[seer]

The point Tass was that I can not think of anything that would be more unifying or better for cohesion than a common religion. And there is often no way to resolve conflicts in many other areas, like politics - that is why Communist atheists slaughtered millions of dissidents who would not conform to to their political ideals.

Nor does it result in a cohesive society in the actively Christian USA; look at how cohesive a secular society such as Norway can be.

Is Norway more cohesive now than it was 100 years ago when it was largely Christian? How can you quantify these things?

Norway, unlike the violent USA, doesn't have a large, marginalised sub-class that breeds "gangbangers"

That is because the population is pretty much white bread. 94.4% are ethnic Norwegian, and BTW the majority are still Christian.

http://mecometer.com/country/norway/demographics/

[Kbertsche]

The most actively religious country in the western world, i.e. The USA, is statistically the most inequitable and violent among all comparable nations.

Even if this were true, which I don't believe, why would you think that religion causes violence? Perhaps it's the opposite; living in a violent society causes more people to turn to God?

You have not shown that US "is statistically the most inequitable and violent among all comparable nations".
You have not even begun to show a causal relationship between religion and violence.

[Roy]

Mongol conquests: body count 30 - 40 million

Yep, nice peace loving people these atheists - we could all learn something from them.

In what sense were the Mongols atheists?

[One Bad Pig]

In what sense were the Mongols atheists?

I was wondering that, too.

[Tassman]

Yep, nice peace loving people these atheists - we could all learn something from them.